Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Baron Opal

I think a 20-24 page primer would do nicely. Follow that up with the hard data from S&G and Mitlaniyal for the geography, cultures, and the supernatural. You could probably make 5-6 good sourcebooks out of that data alone. For critters, adapting the old bestiary and simply referencing check points (strong as orc, ogre, owlbear, &c.) would be sufficient.

With a properly planned kickstarter, you could do well enough to make your money back, and perhaps a profit as well.

Agreed; this is largely what I proposed, some years back; regional and urban sourcebooks, to make the information more accessible, was one of my suggestions.

Originally Posted by Zirunel

well, you can't argue with Stephen Foster's prognosis. Twenty years on, Tekumel may not be dead, but it is about as "alive" as he imagined it would be.

His diagnosis? I think he captured some of the problems, obviously there were and are more.

Then the prescription. I don 't know that giving away content will raise Tekumel from the grave, but I do believe it is part of a healthy lifestyle, so I am very sympathetic to his suggestion!

I do think Tekumel needs a big, meaningful free giveaway to build market share. Where I disagree is that the big free giveaway should be the Sourcebook. I just don't think it is a big hook. The Sourcebook is the net that lands you when you are already hooked, but I don't think it is the thing that gets you to bite in the first place.

I'm not sure a primer is either. People have been debating (and circulating drafts of) the "perfect Tekumel primer" for 20 years or more. Presumably as a way to give away free content without giving away too much. And I think a brief factsheet is a great thing to have, especially for conventions, but I don't think it is any way to build wide appeal for a product that doesnt have that yet.

No, the giveaway has to be bigger than that. It has to be a complete, but very basic game with all the fluff of original EPT, and enough allusions to the vast detail to make people feel they got something real for free, but make them hungry for more. Tekumel Basic. My opinion.

And a very good opinion it is, too. Input like yours is what's really needed and should be sought out and heeded.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Well my silly opinion for what it is worth is to give away stand alone adventures with pre-made characters.
If they are good enough, people will want more and will want to create their own characters.
People are always looking for fun adventures, after a few they will be vested.

You can then sell what is needed for people to make their own.
How you divide up what to sell and for how much I leave to professionals.

I don't doubt being compatible with D20 would help though I personally would prefer Savage Worlds.
=

Yep. Get 'em playing, and it gets them hooked I've found.

Originally Posted by Opaopajr

Sounds like death by exclusivity factionalism. Not much you can do about that except live your life and enjoy doing what you love. Power games over reduced stakes, all the more bitter for how small the prize. It is best to walk away from that sort of cliquishness.

Yes, it is, which is why when the crap hit the fan over Luke Gygax wanting a Tekumel room at Gary Con this past spring, I finally gave up and walked away. I happen to like Luke and his family, and they run a great convention; no need to put them through the wringer and controversy.

And yet another opportunity to make Tekumel 'more accessible' was lost, through no fault of Luke or Gary Con.

Sigh.

Originally Posted by Big Andy

I recall that you have a copy of the npc note cards the Professor used. Where did everyone end up when the Professor stopped playing? Not everyone everyone (that would be too many everyones) but some of the more notable folks, like some of the characters from the novels, etc. Was there any indication of what the Next Big Thing that Tekumel was going to face?

Also, when Dave passed, did Captain Harchar?

There are over 1,800 answers to that question; basically, the meta-game froze in place and simply stopped where where everybody was at the end of the late civil wars. A short list would take a lot of space, but it is doable with the database.

No, not really. Phil left some notes and hints in "Beyond The Dark Pool of Memory" but it's hard to determine a direction from the dozen plus chapters we found.

No; Harchar is a little older, a little slower, and a little more grey, but he's still up to his usual 'business ventures'. He now has several ships, and his mates have been promoted to command them. He has a daughter as well, and she commands her own ship - it's become a family firm, as they say.

Originally Posted by Bren

At first glance that sounds wonderful.

...for them.

And their model makes a lot of business sense since we all know how the proprietary source code of Betamax and Apple allowed them to gain and maintain the dominant market share for video cassette recorders and personal computers.

...or maybe not "dominant market share" but that other thing.

And all true, too!

Originally Posted by Zirunel

one thing that occurs to me when you talk about disassembling and recasting Tekumel is the difference between the Professors text, and the packaging it comes in. For me, at least, the Professors texts are quite timeless. Yes, the Professors writing can have a dry, academic quality, but there is also an authority and a real-world quality there that I have rarely seen. It may not quite immerse you in a "real, tangible" world, but it is almost as though you are listening to your grandfather describe a "real, tangible" world. I find it quite magical and rather timeless.

In contrast, art, production design and game mechanics all get dated distressingly quickly. That is what the Professors text is wrapped up in, and however timeless the text, the packaging no longer has much currency

I very, very strongly agree with you on this! One of the very first things I said to the Foundation was "Take my dead hands off the marketing controls" as I thought that what we did at AGI in the late 1970s and early 1980s was fine - for the time - but what was needed was to let Phil's voice be heard. My feeling is that taking Phil's texts and setting them out - preferably on-line - so that people can look at them and make their own decisions will be a better course then taking the position that all of his work must be 'properly interpreted' by a 'proper interpreter' in order for it to be heard. Give people the raw data, I've found over the years, and they'll be back for more...

The 'properly interpreted' attitude kind of assumes that the audience is stupid, and unable to read or think for themselves. Over the years, I have found that people who are interested in Tekumel are the exact opposite; one of the main reasons why I've stuck it out so long is the chance to talk about the place with people like you and the other folks on this thread.

The Sourcebook, for example, is fine as a stand-alone book; it has nothing that specifically ties it to S&G except for the title. Same thing with Deeds or Ebon Bindings. It's the 'tied' stuff, originally intended for use with a game that never took off, that I think needs to be left on the 'back list' and offered as PDFs or print-on-demand and not made the flagships of the line.

Let Phil speak. He did create the place, after all...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I very, very strongly agree with you on this! One of the very first things I said to the Foundation was "Take my dead hands off the marketing controls" as I thought that what we did at AGI in the late 1970s and early 1980s was fine - for the time - but what was needed was to let Phil's voice be heard. My feeling is that taking Phil's texts and setting them out - preferably on-line - so that people can look at them and make their own decisions will be a better course then taking the position that all of his work must be 'properly interpreted' by a 'proper interpreter' in order for it to be heard. Give people the raw data, I've found over the years, and they'll be back for more...

The 'properly interpreted' attitude kind of assumes that the audience is stupid, and unable to read or think for themselves. Over the years, I have found that people who are interested in Tekumel are the exact opposite; one of the main reasons why I've stuck it out so long is the chance to talk about the place with people like you and the other folks on this thread.

The Sourcebook, for example, is fine as a stand-alone book; it has nothing that specifically ties it to S&G except for the title. Same thing with Deeds or Ebon Bindings. It's the 'tied' stuff, originally intended for use with a game that never took off, that I think needs to be left on the 'back list' and offered as PDFs or print-on-demand and not made the flagships of the line.

Let Phil speak. He did create the place, after all...

Chirine,

I think that ultimately this is the crux of the matter. Tekumel needs to simplified and spiced up. Drop all the bloody accent marks, and simplify the names of the critters and what not. Hell, spell them phonetically if needs be! There are already a lot of good game systems out there that can be used, and a new set of rules is not really needed. As you said, let Phil do the talking, but let others freely add to the story. Also, I think Zirunel hit it on the head as well. The art in particular really needs to be updated. I think that a more realistic look would go a long way in selling it. Case in point. My group recently encountered a powerful and old undead in my game. I used this as the visual aid to describe what they saw (I believe the artist is "Tatarski Skandal"):

undead_king_by_tatarskiskandal-d762z50.jpg

Something like this instantly presents a much stronger impact than the majority of the standard black and white line drawings we get with Tekumel. I know that it ultimately comes down to cost, but an initial larger layout may result in a heck of a lot more attention and interest being generated. Why is the Warhammer universe so popular? Is it due to the great rule sets, or is it due to the "fluff", and a particular specific aesthetic? I personally think the latter two reasons are why.
Anyway, all of this wishful thinking. Until either the control of the IP is wrested away from the Foundation, or the current regime is purged Tekumel will, in my opinion, continue to languish and ultimately disappear altogether.

Shemek

C.S. Lewis frequently condemned the human urge to be part of the "inner circle" or "secret coterie." Tekumel is a good example of what happens when this urge runs wild.