These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000. A large portion of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain from sharing this data with non list members. When the list ended, it was urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it seemed like a good idea all around. I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site. Many Thanks. Chris Davis Moderator: Blue Room mailing list Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 18 511: More on Temples and Legions 512: Engsvanyali Campaign Notes 1 513: New Article on the FTP Site 514: News from Tekumel Prime 515: Miniatures and Legion Questions 516: More on Miniatures and Legions 517: Miscellaneous Questions 518: OAL Question and a Bonus 519: More on Miniatures and Legions 520: Rereshqala 521: Gods' Preferred Items Response 522: Best of the Journals News 523: Pronunciation Tape WAV 524: New Tekumel Web Site 525: Miniatures 526: More OAL News 527: More on Preferences of the Gods 528: Tekumel Products List 529: Heretics in Tsolyanu 530: Ruvadis 531: Chlen Hide Chainmail 532: Mitlanyal News 533: Vampirism Wrap-Up 534: General Kettukal 535: Some Sad News 536: More on Preferences of the Gods 537: North of Ru 538: Legion Religious Affiliations 539: Legion Affiliation Response 540: Vampirism Wrap-Up #2 ******************************* //511 [Moderator's Note: The Professor responds to Bob's message on Temples and ] [ Legions. ] Joe's Initial queston... >Whilst editing Mitlanyal, Joe Saul was moved to ask... > >"[please discuss] the relationship between the war temples and the >professional military (i.e. Legions)? The role of these temples in society, >especially as regard the Legions, is not at all clear to me. For example, my >understanding is that temple guard units rarely fight. If so, how can the >priests of Karakan claim to actually be warriors, except in some symbolic >sense? Wouldn't anyone truly interested in war as a lan activity sign up for >the best legion he could join? And wouldn't he look down upon anyone who >serves in a mere temple guard unit? > >"Or can officers of military legions also become lay-priests of >Karakan/Chegarra, join the honorary societies, get the martial training, >and so >on? > >"Maybe it's just me, but I am confused..." >---- >From here out, the > prefaced lines are Bob's response. The other lines are Professor Barker's comments. >Here is my response, but I'd like to hear what the professor has to say. >It is important to understand that in Tsolyani terms I am a "scholar priest," >likely of Thumis, probably only of the second circle. Hence military matters >hold almost no interest for me whatsoever, unlike many gamers. Thus my >analysis of temple-military relationships and my understanding regarding Joe's >question is limited. > >As far as I know, the military in Tsolyanu is a uniquely hybrid beast: the >military legions are wielded by the Imperium, but are supported and funded >by various combinations of the Temples, clans, and the local and imperial >treasuries. > >This balance prevents the military as a whole from gaining too much >independent power, and also prevents any of the Imperium, Temples and >clans from turning the military against any of the other groups. There is also the ancient, historical prestige factor: these Legions have histories and Kaing (= standards) that date back hundreds and in some cases thousands of years. Generals dare not allow their personal greed to besmirch a reputation that was old when Engsvan hla Ganga ruled the world! The Tsolyani Imperium is indeed a unique sort of quasi-religious, quasi-economic, quasi-political creation. It is part of a temple's glory to be one of the patrons of its legions, and it is similarly part of a clan's pride to be a patron of those legions. The temples and the clans view to establish "museums" (halls of memory, as some call them), in which the ancient war relics are set out for all to see: great Kaing standards, the older ones encased in protective lead sheaths; swords, shields, tabards, armour, bows and other weapons, captured enemy gear, treasures and trinkets of campaigns fought long ago. These things are just another part of the glue that holds Tsolyani society together. >But the military stands alone. (Now this is where I get hazy.) >Anyone can join any military legion, with some exceptions. In some cases >the restrictions that exist are unwritten, such as a Sarku-worshipper >joining Red Devastation. In other cases the restrictions are explicit: >no men will join Lady Dilinala's legion of lesbian warriors. However, >one is generally free to join almost any legion. This is true, with the reservations mentioned above, plus unwritten economic/social stringencies as well: a poor lad cannot join Red Devastation, any more than a poor girl can join Lady Mrissa's legion of women. A good clan membership can get you in, but if you lack such support, you may not be able to join the legion of your choice. You can then join a lesser legion, or you can join a temple priestly guard legion (if you're devout enough and of the right clan), or you may join a city guard or Sakbe road legion -- or you can can get into one of the supply units that provide food, goods, weapons, clothing, transport, and other logistic needs. >If a young man or woman wishes to join a legion supported by Lord Karakan, >he or she may do so. Even (hazy again) a youth whose family raised him as >a Sarku worshipper could join, although he would be well advised not to >exhibit any but the most perfunctory interest in his family faith. As stated above, this is theoretically possible but practically dubious in many cases. A backsliding Sarku worshipper might be given a chance if he has money, friends in the right places, and perhaps other reasons to be admitted. Case in point: Prince Rereshqala recently had to intervene in a case in which a young worshipper of Hru'u was admitted into a highly placed legion devoted to Lord Hnalla. When discovered, the legion's officers proposed to quietly throw him out and be done with it, but the boy called upon a powerful clan relative in Sokatis. During the investigation of how this had happened, it turned out that the recruiting officer (a Molkar in Jakalla) had allowed himself to be swayed by the fact that the boy's older sister, a truly lovely maiden, would be made available to him if the lad were admitted without question. This seems to have been carried out by the machinations of the lad's clan, and the girl -- a rather meek young clangirl -- had little to say about it. Prince Rereshqala untangled the mess, put the boy into a good Hru'u-based legion, sent his soldiers to rescue the girl from her unwilling liaison, and reprimanded those responsible. >One could be a worshipper of Lord Karakan, then, but not be a priest of the >temple, and hence not a temple guard. You could join a Karakan legion, >see all sorts of wondrous battle action in the fields between Bey Su >and Avanthar, pray for victory in the temple, and be slain gloriously >by an illiterate lad from the Kurt Hills wielding a dull chlen-hide sword >who gets in a lucky shot. All true. >Priests of the various temples may become military officers through >personal effort (by studying as a priest before joining a military legion) >or by means of political and financial incentives. High Administrative >Priests may be appointed as Legion officers because of their adminstrative >skills and political acumen. High Ritual priests are often appointed as the >"Kerdu" of a legion, when in fact the legion is really run by their >experienced military adjutant, and they serve merely as the Temple >liason [sp. liaison] to the legion. And in the Temple of Vimuhla, all the >soldiery >are at least first-circle priests of the Temple, so that whole legions >are made up of "temple priests" who are also warriors. All true, again. >What you probably WON'T find are mid-level soldiers who are also mid-level >priests. To be a mid-level priest, one must live and work in the temple. >To be a mid-level soldier, one must bunk in the barracks. Only at the top >where money, power and influence stir the mix will you find the "High >Ritual Priest of Karakan and Kerdu of the Legion of Blazing Glory," or >such. A few exceptions exist, but in general this is true. >The temple guard of the various temples are (always? usually? sometimes?) >a branch of the ritual priesthood, of fairly junior station. They are usually an *offshoot* of the ritual priesthood, but they are not counted as technically belonging to it. Thus, the ritual priests of Karakan might not consider their temple guards as organisationally part of themselves. It is like asking an American marine if he/she is *part* of the U.S. army, the Navy, the Airforce, or the Coastguard! In a broader sense, yes; in a narrow sense, no. Temple guardsmen usually start as ritual priests (but so do administrators and scholars), but they branch off and become members of their special units rather quickly. >The grizzled sergeant of the temple guard is probably someone of only >moderate >clan, only moderate ambition, and only moderate intelligence and >political >skills, Hence their rather unphenomenal station in life. All true. But the Temple Guard are >either ritual priests, or else clanspeople hired by the Temple for the duty. >These are not the same as military legion troops, and experience in >the temple guard is of only limited interest to legion recruiters -- sort >of like the way a teenage job at McDonald's demonstrates one's ability to >show up for work and not get fired, and that's all. Temple guards normally begin as ritual priests but quickly specialise. Local clansmen are not usually taken directly into a temple guard unit, although they may be hired for special tasks (e.g. crowd control, guarding a shipment of goods beinf sent from one temple to another, etc.). >There are of course certain positions in the temple guard reserved for those >of particular skill, talent, intelligence and devotion. These persons are >a cut above the second-circle "Opener of the Way of Bones" (Sarku Temple door- >guard), and would not mix with such. These officers of the temple guard are >highly trained and serve to guard the Inner Sanctums, and the offices and >persons of the Inner Temple. When one of the Temple Guards blasts an >invader with a blazing spell, then slices through four or five bravos >to turn back an incursion of player characters, that's the kind of officer >that they ran into. > >I invite Professor Barker to shoot holes in this analysis, as it represents >only my limited experience with military matters in Tsolyanu. >Bob Alberti Not for me to poke holes in your blanket! You express things nicely. All I can add are a few details. Phil [Moderator's Note: Phil also added some comments on the list member supplied] [ fiction URL that I sent out. Thanks Ian! ] Dear Chris, I welcome such contributions! I hope there will be more coming. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //512 [Moderator's Note: The Professor is currently running an Engsvanyali based] [ campaign that I enjoyed being a part of recently. One ] [ of the players, Al Musielewicz has been providng me ] [ with excellent narrative reports of thier progress and ] [ and we decided that those reports would make excellent ] [ content for the Blue Room. I'll provide some ] [ spotty background, and his reports will provide more ] [ detail. Funny, it appears that we are in a period of ] [ Civil War in this age, too. Who'd have guessed??? ] My intro. I have decided to mash my intro, and Al's 2 reports into one message. Others will follow as they arrive. ------------------- I am Kanuthu Melesh, Second Magistrate of Seyritha, a small quiet town in the Northern part of the Engsvanyali Empire. My post was a quiet one, without much prestige, but comfortable for a small town. it all started with an uproar one afternoon, when 4 clan-brothers from quite some distance away blustered in complaining of brigands, and bearing large kegs of Zu'ur. A most deadly drug. After being told by the head of the local Alchemist's clan (I am still not certain I trusted his opinion -- other than the one he offered about his clansman, the fact that they were idiots!) that it was not Zu'ur, I stored the liquid for further analysis. We ate and I had the unpleasant task of trying to decide how to tell them that Geroth (the "bandit") was actually a clan-cousin doing some "covert operations". :) But there were other things that needed to be discussed. They brought very disturbing news. Apparently a rising power in the North was threatening the peace. We (our clan) supported the First Prince of Engsvan hla Ganga. The would be usurper of the North, the Prince of Blood was trying to consolidate his power in the North, and move down to meet the First Prince. During the night, as we slept in my "palace" (it was a crumbling affair) we were warned of imminent attack. I was 2nd Magistrate, and we tried to notify the 1st Magistrate, but it appeared the murdering rogues were already in that part of the city. We found all members of our clan had been killed, along with one of Geroth's "daughters". Geroth found us (or did we find him?) outside the clanhouse and led us into an unfre- quently used storehouse, that allowed us to move out of the area unseen. With our "bandit" clan-cousin Geroth, we struck out to the wharves to find a boat in which to escape. We discovered that one of the reasons the Prince of Blood was here was to raid our warehouses of food and other resources. Well, we couldn't let that happen! We torched most of the warehouses, hopefully setting back the Prince's plans, and struck off to the North. One of the last sights I saw of Seyritha was its burning wharves, and a jewel encrusted armoured figure shaking his fist at us, as we paddled toward the Northern shore of the Lake. We had picked up about 40 or so refugees, also, and had to bring them with us. We barely kept in front of the Prince's troops, and after many difficult days and nights we made it to a nice quiet village. We were openly welcomed, and the refugees were invited to stay and help, and have found a new home. At least for now. A few days later a con- tingent of the Prince's men parlayed with my clan-brothers, and after some discussion, returned to the Prince, as their orders were somewhat confusing, (or my clan-brother confused him with Chlen-sh*t). After a few days, my clan-brothers struck further north, and I stayed with the refugees, and am helping integrate them and myself into the new village we have now made our home. It is my hope to strike out after my clan-brothers, and rejoin them after I have made sure what is left of the people of Seyritha that are here remain safe and comfortable. I shall share their reports with you as I receive them. Progress report 1 ------------------------ To: Kanuthu Melesh, Second Magistrate of Seyritha From: Koroneshmu vi Endu Dearest Cousin: Once again I thank you for your kind hospitality and your aid in helping us escape from Seyritha. As you remember we parted your company in a small village nestled in the mountains to the north of the city. At that point we left with Geroth, the onetime bandit, clan cousin and now guide and confidant. I am writing this letter to recount our adventures since parting. We left the village mentioned and traveled north over the peaks of the mountains in the company of several dozen of the personages that wished to accompany us in that direction. Once we reached the top of the mountains, we noticed that the forests to the east along the range were old growth forests with few if any breaks. Along to the west there were some fields. The sea was readily visible from the top of the mountain. Oh to explain the wonders that we fealt seeing the desire of our hearts the first time! Lo! We sang bawdy tavern songs, that would cause even the most seasoned of our clan sisters to blush. La! We merrily marched down towards the sea. We could tell that the sea was shallow. Persons could be seen walking out far into the sea. The crops along this side of the slope were in a good stage of growth. Chlen beasts were pulling loads in and out of the fields. We saw a number of persons along the road and questioned them. They informed us that this area was under the control of the Prince of Blood. One boy of about fourteen was particularly informative. He explained that his village was ahead and we paid him a few small coins (I was amazed he knew the value of money) to lead us to his village near the coast. Numerous children came up to us an begged. The told us for a few coins they could lead us to the pirates treasure and other places of interest. The children were no worse nor better than the beggars that line the street outside of our clan house. The older lad said he would take us to his grandmother who could give us space for the night. It was some time after sunset when we entered the village. It was poor. It is cut off from the seacoast and is in the middle of the forest. One rush light was lit in the village square. A man was sitting in the village square near the light. We questioned him and he stated that the Lord of Blood came and took the adults away from the village. Now only the young and the old live in the village. The crops are standing the fields and only the older children are left to do the work. We questioned the old man at some length and he stated that the village had no real name other than "the village". He also knew that the path that led down the seacoast to a town about 20 or 30 ssan away. It was at this time that we noticed that the peasants that followed us were no longer with the party and we could not determine when they had left us. Geroth did not wish to stay in town but said that he would stay in a cove about two ssan down the road to the west The cove had lots of driftwood and was a ssan from the open sea. An inlet about a quarter ssan in width goes all the way to the village. About four ssan to the west was a pomentary that had a lookout post on it in the days that this village was a pirate base. Hakael was the name of the old man that assisted us and directed us to the home of the old woman. We went into the house and went up to the second story to spend the night. Later that night the children brought us food. All did not seem right in that the Grandmother was not around. We looked at the food and decided that one of us would eat and the others would not. We lit the candle and notice that shadows long and thick were forming everywhere. The darkness began to press around the light from the candle. We went to sleep while one kept watch. It was during the second watch that we were attacked. The children had grown to the height of a man. We could reconize there features although they had hideously changed. We smote them with our weapons only to find that they had greyish smoke inside of them! No blood! No entrails! What foul beasts of legend and the tombs had we disturbed. There were others outside of the room. We relit the canlde. Outside of our window we could see drifting shadows and forms in the fog. There could be heard soft chittering in the wind. The fog actually had tendrils that would reach out and touch things. We went outside briefly to look around. We looked at the house and it had changed form! It now appeared to be the aft castle on a ship and not like a house at all. We went back into the house/ship and back to our room. The food that had appeared eatible earlier now appeared fetid and decayed. Soon we heard crying in the street. A child was in the middle of the street crouching and weeping. The child began to mutter and we did not understand what it was saying. We approached the child only to find out it was not human but some creature from a nightmare! It had long limbs and a narrow probisus. It had grey powder that it sprayed out. When we struck the creature is exploded in a cloud of smoke. It sounded like shattering bamboo. We raced back to the house. Once inside we noticed shadow creatures along the walls and ceiling that attempted to drop upon us. Spidery types of creatures whose heads would change shape while watched. There were undead buried in boxes that came out to get at us. Other creatures attemmpted to attack us that I can barely describe. It is strange in that I was touched by two of these creatures and I became deathly cold from there touch. I was moving as if in slow motion, as if I was acting in a fog. We defeated some of these creatures and it was soon determined that we could not last the night. We decided to strike out for the cove with Geroth. On the way to the cove, we almost succombed to the fog and creatures. I wished to sleep, but the others would not let me. We foudn a statue in the path, it was very worn. It looked like a human being wearing a cloak, like a priest or holy persons. What was of importance was that the fog could not or did not come near the statue. We decided we would have to spend the rest of the night at this statue. We placed our back to the statue and looked out into the four directions. Dawn came some time later. ---to be continued--- Progress Report 2 --------------------------------- When dawn finally came we were able to look a bit closer at the statue. Although we could not read the script, I took a piece of parchment and took what I believed to be a carving of the name of the entity or personage represented by the statue. We went back to the town in the morning to discover that in the daylight the town looked entirely deserted. Not a person was in sight and everything looked like it had not been used in a long time. We were perplexed in that the creatures here knew of Prince of Blood. In that we were sure that they existed and we did not enter into some sort of interdimensional rift or interfogulation as it is technically known by the Priests of Hlallal. We spotted Geroth or he spotted us and we told him of our adventure of the previous night. He warded himself and advised we leave immediately. We decided not to burn the village. As we approached the shore we noticed that there are carved wooden pillars everywhere along the shore facing seaward. Soon traveling along the coast we meet some men from a village farther up the coast. We ask them of the pillars and they tell us that these pillars are used to keep demons and ghosts from coming to their village. We inspect the pillars further. There are strange marks and symbols upon them. Some of these pillars appear to be of stone. Further along the coast we see a bay. The water level is low at this time of the day so we may cross without much difficulty. At night the water goes far inland along this inlet. The village is much larger than the one we were in last night. There are white mud walls along the entire perimeter and halfway up the hills leading to the mountains. There is a substantial amount of cultivated land inside the walls. Farther up the hills are towers that allow the guards to see far in every direction. All in all it is a pleasant place for us to observe. We enter into the village through a ladder type of construct which can be drawn up to prevent entry by enemies. We ask why such elaborate fortifications for a simple village. The men tell us that "ones who come from the sea" attempt to raid the village at irregular intervals and this is to protect the village. We ask about the nearest town from here and they relate that it is rumoured to be 200 to 300 ssan to the west along the coast. As we enter the town we meet the Lord of the village Mekan Teshmu. He is a hefty man and of pleasant manners. He tells us stories of the raids of the "ones who come from the sea". He tells us of the devasted and wild lands to the east. He cannot relate a satisfactory tale of the village we visited last night. No one from this village will travel there. He knows of the Lord of Blood, but his village is not worth the effort to conquer, so they leave it alone. About three or four ssan away to the west is Makumaya's Head. This is the promontary to that contains the old observation towers used by the pirates who used be along this coast and then used by villagers to look for pirates. At this time, it is used as a roosting place for numerous birds. He offers us the hospitality of his village. We accept. Eventually we learn that the women of this village are hideous in appearance. They are stunted and hairy and have trouble conceiving. We also learn that they have trouble growing vegetables here. One of the locals points to a steel obelisk that juts from the ground. He tells us that it glows at night. The legend is that Lord Harakan threw it at Lord Huru from the heavens. It landed here and it sits in the earth. One of the youth climbed to the top and founds cranks and wheels. He died shortly after. His hair and teeth fell off and he developed burns and blisters on his body. At this time a tall thin woamn who is the priestess of Nallal approached us. She is the priestess of this village. Her name is Lasha. ---to be continued--- ----- //513 Hear Ye, Hear Ye! A new article is available on the FTP site. It was lovingly typed by Kenji Schwarz, (about 1.2 years ago) and is titled, The Temple of Vimuhla. I scanned the pictures from the article today, and I have included them at the end of the article. Please note, I am now creating Acrobat 3.0 documents now. I will upgrade the old ones from 2.1 to 3.0 at some time in the future. The file is 288K in size, and can be found in the articles subdirectory. Thank you Kenji for not flaying me for taking an inexcusable amount of time getting it together and ready for public viewing. Hey, that's one long-standing item off my todo list. Next, I'm going to spend a few hours on the sourcebook. Chris -- //514 [Moderator's Note: James Snead (among others) have asked what is happening ] [ on Real Tekumel these days. I have put forth the ques- ] [ tion to the Professor, and received this reply. ] >it has been a while since we had any update on current events on >Tekumel. Any chance of persuading someone to provide a briefing to those of >us in the provinces? Our gaming parties are now elsewhere: the Thursday nighters are on the other side of Tekumel enjoying a war with the Hokun. The old Tuesday night group is now in Engsvanyali times, doing political things with the chief of the Priestkings in Ganga. Both are having fun, but neither can shed much light on events on what I have come to call "North Tekumel." In fact, Rereshqala now owns the southeastern quarter of the country, from the Missuma river on the west, over to the western border of Chaigari, north to Sokatis and south to the coast (plus some of the isles). Eselne owns the northwest, down as far as Tumissa, which still refuses to allow *any* Prince inside its fabled fortifications. Eselne himself is rumoured to have died in the battle in the river just north of Usenanu -- he hasn't [Moderator's Note: This can be confirmed, as it was seen by some operatives] [ that ended up seeing the battle unexpectedly. He was, ] [ er unfortunately, somehow (?) revivified.. ;) ] been seen -- except from a distance -- for a month or more; Mirusiya besieged Avanthar, got nowhere, and is now busy starving the fortress preparatory to another assault, together with young Taksuru; Ma'in Kruthai is in Katalal, drumming up support for Eselne, who has offered her the best deal she can get: First Wife of the Emperor (Eselne), when things stabilise. Mirusiya still has problems with Eselne; these two just don't get along. Emperor Dhich'une has now run out of human troops inside the citadel and is resorting to creatures "borrowed" (or "rented" perhaps with Avanthar's stored treasures) from Other Planes. He doesn't want to use his Undead because all but the Jajgis are too slow and need too much direct supervision compared to humans. However, there are lots of creatures and races out there who would enjoy lunching on Tekumel... The Salarvyani have retreated from Ferinara and the Chaigari. Apparently there are political tussles at home, which nobody has seen fit to tell me about! The Mu'ugalavyani are stable and stationary in Pan Chaka. It is rumoured that they are planning an assault along the coast and through the swamps to take Penom (don't ask me why they want it) to use as a seaport for a major invasion later. Things are messy. Exciting, though! Regards, Phil ----- //515 [Moderator's Note: Shawn Bond asks about miniatures and a certain Legion. ] >The first question concerns the miniature labelled a "generic" Tsolyani >infantryman. The uniform of worn by this soldier is quite similar to the >uniform depicted in a rendering of the Seige of Ke'er in the Empire of the >Petal Throne rulesbook (drawn by the Prof. himself). The pictures tells >the reader it shows a scene of troops of the Legion of Serqu laying siege >to the mighty fortress of Baron Ald (after which the beauteous Yilrana was >savagely impaled before its shattered gates). I don't believe the Tsolyani >have "generic" troops other than conscripts drafted from peasants (who >certainly are not attired in the armor worn in the picture). Therefore, my >question is: which came first, the picture or the figurine? Or has the >uniform been assigned as a "standard" uniform for one our glorious legions >of the Almighty and Every Puissant Seal? (as a wargamer, I can appreciate a >"generic" miniature to fill out one's army - making 100+ individual legion >miniatures is an impossible undertaking). Most Tsolyani arms and armour are made to order for specific legions. This is very true for the heavy infantry, medium infantry, and many others: the "name" Legions of the Empire. The draftees (conscripts, lesser Cohorts, supply troops, road guards, city guards, and the like) are usually issued their gear when they need it and not before. Sometimes it fits and sometimes it doesn't. Reminds me of a siege at the beginning of the war with Yan Kor a few years back: the great Ahanbasrim, who later perished in "Flamesong," was given a dose of amnesia by an enemy; he was wandering around Khirgar when a recuiting party picked him up and drafted him to serve in the coming battle. For some reason he was issued a helmet that had a crest fastened on with a bolt and nut that protruded doesn into the interior od the helmet. He spent the next month bemoaning the headache it gave him. This, however, is a realistic portrayal of "universal" soldier's equipment. Ouch... What the picture depicts is accurate: the Tsolyani support legions that were brought to serve in Yan Kor during that long struggle. Some of these troops are sappers, artillerymen, or just cannon-fodder. >My second question (which I will make brief) is how did the imperial heavy >legion, The Legion of Mighty Jakalla, fare during the War in the North? >The last mention of it is in "Deeds of the Ever Glorious" where it was >based at Khirgar in 2358 AS. Did it participate in the battles for the >Atkolel Heights and later Pijena? And what of it's commander, an >ex-governor of slumberous Jakalla, who was made commander as punishment for >financial misdeeds during his reign? The Legion fought well in the Atkolel Heights, but was badly pummeled when it tried to advance into Pijena. Eselne disliked the General and eventually persuaded his father (the God Emperor) to order him home to Avanthar, where he became a bureaucrat in the Chancery. He has not been heard from since Dhich'une took over. Hope this helps, Regards, Phil ----- //516 [Moderator's Note: This message is a group of messages in response to the ] [ previous message about miniatures and Legions. The ] [ Professor adds a comment, and Joe Saul asks a question ] [ that Professor Barker answers, and another question ] [ about the Mourners in Sable is asked by Dwight Grosso. ] [The Professor wanted this added to the last message, but a few other ] [messages came in, so I just grouped it into this message instead. ] Professor Barker's addition. I see that I forgot to mention that Tsolyani troops enganged in combat do not wear their fancy parade dress uniforms, which are what the miniatures represent. At a siege they are usually issued "siege coats" of leather with bronze plates sewn inside at crucial places, plus helmets with a wider, deeper brim and greater thickness. It is hard to tell which Legion is which at a siege, thus. Phil ----- Joe Saul's Question. On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, The Blue Room Mailing List wrote: > sometimes it doesn't. Reminds me of a siege at the beginning of the war with > Yan Kor a few years back: the great Ahanbasrim, who later perished in > "Flamesong," was given a dose of amnesia by an enemy; he was wandering Could someone tell me who this refers to, exactly? "Basrim" sounds familiar, but I don't have my Tsolyani dictionary to hand... Joe ----- Professor Barker's answer. Joe asks about "Ahanbasrim," which means "Iron Man" in Tsolyuan: /ahan/ "iron" + /basrim/ "man". It was the nickname taken by Craig Smith, who used to game Tekumel. He was a wonderful player and a good artist who drew some of the earlier pictures of Tekumel. He lost interest eventually and drifted away. Regards, Phil [Moderator's Note: I thought Joe might be remembering Bazhan, the General ] [ that impaled Yilrana when he took the castle she was ] [ residing in. ] ----- Dwight's Question. I have a question regarding figures for Mu'ugalavya and the Ahoggya. First, has anyone produced a figure for the Company of the Mourners in Sable? Would figures for the Legion of Destroy in Glory be a likely substitute, and would the overall color scheme be more black rather than red? As far as the Ahoggya are concerned, does anybody have any of the tall armored or unarmed ahoggya figures available? I didn't see any in PHD's downloaded pricelist. Does anybody use Legions of the Petal Throne for their wargames? I have a copy of it and like the simple mechanics utilised in it. I am picking up a copy of Missum fairly soon to add to my collection of Tekumel wargames. Anybody in the Washington area play any of the games? I'd love to hear from you. [Moderator's Note: We don't do much rule discussion, but please feel free ] [ to email Dwight directly at the address below to discuss] [ rules. ] One last question. Does anybody have information about painting the various legions of the five empires? The only information I have is from vol. one of the Best of the Journals. [Moderator's Note: I believe there is some painting information in the Army] [ lists. While I don't think they detail all the legions,] [ they do cover some. I believe they are available from ] [ Carl Brodt. I just checked. The last page of all the ] [ Army lists is a painting guide for the specific Legions.] Dwight Grosso DarkDwight@aol.com ----- //517 [Moderator's Note: Charlie Goering asks numerous miscellaneous questions. ] >I have been reading through the Blue Room items you sent me some time ago. >This has generated a number of questions. These are in no particular order, >as I have been reading items out of sequence due to time constraints (don't >you hate when the mundane world interrupts your life on Tekumel?). >1/I remember seeing a article years ago in the Tekumel Digest or the Imperial >Courier that dealt with the metals, jewels, etc. favored by the various Gods >and Cohorts. Any chance of getting info on this? I would also like to find >out about sacred numbers (3 for Vimuhla for ex,),favored days of the week and >the like. I recall that article. I looked for this morning but can't lay my hands on it. Can anybody else help this noble person? [Moderator's Note: I looked through all my JTAs and ICs. I don't have the ] [ Best of the Journal series. I bet if anyone knew the ] [ answer to this stuff it would be Bob Alberti. How about ] [ it Bob, do you know the answer to this? ] >2/ Are there any published military histories of the war with Yan Kor? Anyone >from my unit, the 22nd Imperial Heavy Infantry, have details abut the battle >mentioned in Deeds of the Ever-Glorious? When was it fought? Which Yan >Koryani legion was bested? The only published battle report was the battle of the Temple of Chanis, which does not relate to the war in Yan Kor per se. This article was originally issued in "The Wargamer," about 1974 (?). It was later republished in vol. one of the "Best of the Journal" magazines. Another article, "The Battle of Ry, [i.e. /r/ + an umlaut u) was published in vol. three of "The Best of the Journals." Perhaps Carl Brodt might still have a copy of these? Or be willing to republish them? I don't have a battle array list of the forces for this battle, which was fought in a straggling, unruly fashion in the copses north of Chene Ho. The Mighty of Jakalla faced one of the Gurek of the Valiant of Ke'er, but I don't recall which commander it was. I know that Lord Fu Hsi was not there. The Yan Koryani tried to advance through brush and stands of trees and got pounded. >3/ Did Prince Surundano really renounce the Gold? Where is he now? Certain >members of the Monastery of Sublime Equilibrium and the Sikukh (Justice) >faction of the Grey Short Spear Clan are very interested. He did indeed renounce the Gold. Once this step is taken, it cannot ever be taken back or undone. Your factions know about this but are hoping against hope that *all* of the present Princes will kill themselves off and require a rewriting of Imperial law. They really are aware that this cannot be done, and that there are enough witnesses and documentary evidence to prove irrefutably that Surundano really did give up the Gold. My advice? Try to join Rereshqala or Eselne. >4/ Re chlen-hide. Would armorer at the Legion level be trained chlen workers >with taners skills? Is armor repaired at the Legion level or sent to a >depot-level mauntainence unit? Since each Legion is uniquly equipped, I would >sespect the former. Legion-level armourers usually have skills in cutting and fitting armour. Few are trained as tanners, since tanning hides is considered a smelly and somewhat degrading occupation. If time and supply considerations permit, most arms and armour are sent to supply depots, there to be junked or remade into something serviceable. (At Aqesha, one officer's batman sent a rusted steel sword for polishing; the armourer misunderstood and ground the blade down into dagger-length. He now has the sharpest, brightest dagger in Empire -- and the *only* dagger with an Engsvanyali court sword hilt! >5/ Re Dhich'une's child and the question of undead being unable to reproduce. >If Dhich'une sired a child either a) he is not undead, or b) he is a higer >class undead than the Jajgi. Also, is Sarku's final goal to replace the >living with a population of undead on a one-for-one basis? These questions should really be put to a priest of Sarku. If Dhich'une wished, he could "sire" a child through one or another of the machines of the Ancients. What it would look like no one can guess. Not pretty, probably... [Moderator's Note: In previous messages the Professor has told us that ] [ Dhich'une may not be undead, but may have an Aspect of ] [ Lord Sarku laid upon him at certain times. It appears ] [ that it does affect Dhich'une, but I don't think he is ] [ an undead creature, yet. In that case, he is still hu- ] [ man and could certainly sire offspring. In talking with] [ the Professor today, he also stated that this Aspect ] [ might also be able to impregnate a woman, and there is ] [ no telling what the "child" would be or look like! ] Lord Sarku has shown no imperialist tendencies. Turning all the world into Undead-land would create problems for him, and the citizens of other nations would certainly band together to halt this move. Remember, there have been Sarku-worshipping emperors before, and they worked fairly hard for the benefit of the Empire. The only quibble with Dhich'une is they way he got onto the Petal Throne. >6/ Does anyone have a map of my home town of Paya Gupa? Not I, alas.... >7/ Re the use of one of the Keys to the Blue Room. Per the articles, the >Thumis Key was the one used and this would requie a devotee of Thumis to >operate. Does this mean an allience between Thumis and Ksarul factions? or, >was it a rogue Priest? The priesthoods are not as hostile to one another as some Terran groups and factions here. They cooperate in various ways and try to stay out of each other's faces. Yes, the priesthoods agreed long ago that the Keys would be operated each by its respective temple, and that there would always be a trained priest or priestess available to do this task (it can't be performed without long physical and spiritual training). Enjoy! Regards, Phil ----- //518 [Moderator's Note: Jeff Myhre asks about the OAL. And as an added bonus] [ we get more news of things happening in the empire! ] >I have a question for the blueroom crowd. With the civil war raging >in Tsolyanu, what has happened to the Omnipotent Azure Legion? If one >can say that Tsolyanu has a "national" institution, OAL is it -- much >like the only "modern" institution in Latin American in the 1950s was >the military. > >Has the OAL fragmented, or is it working to secure peace? And if so >what kind of peace? Is it focusing on regaining lost territory? Or >has it become a tool of one interest or another? The OAL is used to the changing religious affiliations of the reigning Emperors. It is rumoured that they had a candidate ready to take over the generalship as soon as Dhich'une took power. The legion has been mostly colourless and inactive since the change: many of the troops were worshippers of Stability, or of the "war" factions of Karakan, Chegarra, Vimuhla, or Chiteng, and they preferred to stay out of the action until they could see their course more clearly. Some of the Legion's officers did want peace, with Dhich'une or without him, but this did not transpire. Instead, they ended up in fragments that tend to go with the Prince ruling their area: those in Thraya, etc. are loyal to Rereshqala, while those in Paya Gupa are loyal to Eselne; those in Tumissa follow a neutralist policy preferring local autonomy; in Fasiltum many of the old OAL were killed, due to the Vriddi hatred of central Imperial control; in Bey Su the youngest revealed Prince, Taksuru, has sent some of the military arm of the OAL into battle on the walls of Avanthar. A lot of bright young bureaucrats took the awful plunge down the cliffs into the foaming Missuma River... The biggest fragment of the OAL military arm right now is that of Prince Eselne. These troops are based at Chene Ho and are readying themselves to march east to take the City of Sarku (a terrible and near-impossible task!). If Eselne decides this is too difficult, he may send them down to Tsuru to confront Taksuru's rearguard. Mirusiya will then have to take action, using units of his Red Devastation legion posted there. A busy day in good old Tsolyanu... Regards, Phil ----- //519 [Moderator's Note: The Professor answers Dwights followup questions on ] [ Miniatures and Legions ] >I have a question regarding figures for Mu'ugalavya and the Ahoggya. First, >has anyone produced a figure for the Company of the Mourners in Sable? Would >figures for the Legion of Destroy in Glory be a likely substitute, and would >the overall color scheme be more black rather than red? As far as the Ahoggya >are concerned, does anybody have any of the tall armored or unarmed ahoggya >figures available? I didn't see any in PHD's downloaded pricelist. To my knowledge there never was a figure for the Mourners in Sable. The figure would not be much needed on the battlefield, although it would look very nice in a palace scene. Destroy in Glory can be used as a substitute, but might need some modification. Compare the pictures in the third "Army List: Mu'ugalavya." [Moderator's Note: So, the Mourners in Sable are not structured like the ] [ OAL, in that there is no military arm of the MIS, just ] [ the intelligence gathering arm. Is this also true of ] [ Yan Kor's Surgeth? (I hope I spelled that right) ] > Does anybody use Legions of the Petal Throne for their wargames? I have >a copy of it and like the simple mechanics utilised in it. I am picking up a >copy of Missum fairly soon to add to my collection of Tekumel wargames. >Anybody in the Washington area play any of the games? I'd love to hear from >you. I just heard from the author of "Legions of the PT," Dave Sutherland. He is now out in Seattle, apparently with new plans after leaving TSR. He is a wonderful sculptor and artist. His rules were never all that popular, mostly because the casualty rate was so high. Missum did better. [Moderator's Note: I'll certainly second the Professor's opinion of David's] [ artistic ability. His Tekumel art is among my favorite.] > One last question. Does anybody have information about painting the >various legions of the five empires? The only information I have is from vol. >one of the Best of the Journals. > >[Moderator's Note: I believe there is some painting information in the Army] >[ lists. While I don't think they detail all the legions,] >[ they do cover some. I believe they are available from ] >[ Carl Brodt. I just checked. The last page of all the ] >[ Army lists is a painting guide for the specific Legions.] Yes, each of the five army lists (Tsolyanu, Yan Kor & allies, Mu'ugalavya, Salarvya, and Livyanu) contains a single page at the end giving colour abbreviations and which legions use these colours for their uniforms, The republished army lists can be had from Carl Brodt (carlbrodt@aol.com). He has also republished "Missum." Phil ----- //520 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul asks about Rereshqala. The top part of this ] [ post is the Professor's answer to a similar question ] [ about Surundano. ] [Further Note: I will be leaving town Friday morning and won't be back ] [ until Sunday Evening. So, it will be a bit quiet this week-] [ end. ] >He did indeed renounce the Gold. Once this step is taken, it cannot ever be >taken back or undone. I take it, then, that despite popular guessing, Rereshqala never did renounce the Gold? [Moderator's Note: I'll take a shot at this one. The Professor can correct] [ me if I am wrong. Rereshqala never renounced the gold, ] [ it was just assumed that he would. He spent most of his] [ time partying at his villa in Jakalla. Recent events ] [ show that he learned his lessons well early in life, or ] [ he was doing a bit more than partying all the time he ] [ was in Jakalla. :) ] (By the way, aren't even renunciates eligible in the event the current Emperor dies without issue?) [Moderator's Note: Theoretically, this is absolutely forbidden. However, ] [ as we know, Tsolyani politics are a wonderfully maleable] [ beast. If the candidate that had renounced was popular,] [ I could see how the rules might be bent a bit. If I am ] [ wrong, let us know Professor. ] Joe ----- //521 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti answers Charlie Goering's question about the ] [ metals, jewels, etc favored by the various Gods. ] >>1/I remember seeing a article years ago in the Tekumel Digest or the Imperial >>Courier that dealt with the metals, jewels, etc. favored by the various Gods >>and Cohorts. Any chance of getting info on this? I would also like to find >>out about sacred numbers (3 for Vimuhla for ex,),favored days of the week and >>the like. >[Moderator's Note: I looked through all my JTAs and ICs. I don't have the ] >[ Best of the Journal series. I bet if anyone knew the ] >[ answer to this stuff it would be Bob Alberti. How about ] >[ it Bob, do you know the answer to this? ] Yes and no. I do not have a specific list of "metals precious to the God" or "jewels precious to the God" in Mitlanyal, although certain predilictions are mentioned, such as Sarku's love of copper. Hnalla loves clear crystals of course. Each chapter includes the Gods color, planet, and costume information, as well as preferred sacrifices. However I didn't want to start compiling a "list" like one has for the States: state bird, state flower, state motto, state pastry, state feminine hygiene product, etc., etc., as that strikes me as tiresome. There IS a "numerology" entry for each of the Ten outlining their numerological preferences. I don't have the book in front of me to give you any more detail, except what memory serves: Hnalla is 1, Karakan 3, Vimuhla 9, Sarku 5, Dlamelish 8(?). Each God also enjoys the corresponding letter of the Tsolyani alphabet. Various techniques involve meditating upon these holy numerals and letters to achive harmony with the God. Bob ----- //522 [Moderator's Note: Zane Healy has news of the Best of the Journals and their] [ un-availability through Carl Brodt. :( ] >The only published battle report was the battle of the Temple of Chanis, >which does not relate to the war in Yan Kor per se. This article was >originally issued in "The Wargamer," about 1974 (?). It was later >republished in vol. one of the "Best of the Journal" magazines. Another >article, "The Battle of Ry, [i.e. /r/ + an umlaut u) was published in vol. >three of "The Best of the Journals." Perhaps Carl Brodt might still have a >copy of these? Or be willing to republish them? Alas he didn't have any copies the last time I enquired, I'd asked him about plans for reprinting them, and I think there was a problem with contacting all the needed authors. Zane ----- //523 [Moderator's Note: Brett Slocum gives some more info on the Tsolyani WAV ] [ file on his web site. There are some details on the ] [ attributes on the file. I had no problems getting this] [ file to work on my Win95 workstation, but could not get] [ anything to work on my Mac. I might be able to get it ] [ to go now that I know the attributes. I'll keep you ] [ informed. ] I checked the Pronunciation WAV file in barker.zip on my Web site and it seemed to work fine. This is a WAV - PCM 22 KHz, 8 bit, mono format, if that makes a difference. It works fine in my Windows 95 Media Player. It was Zipped using WinZip 6.2 with no special parameters. I uploaded a new copy just in case the version on the web site is corrupted in some way that my machine glosses over. BTW, the tape stops abruptly in the discussion of the umlaut u. Brett Slocum ----- //524 [Moderator's Note: This is a message from a new member, who has put up his ] [ own Tekumel page. I think this is the first Tekumel web ] [ page I have seen in Australia. So, for the folks there, ] [ (and everywhere else, too!) give Peter's site a look. ] [ Sorry this took so long to get out Peter, I overlooked it] [ when queuing up a large number of messages. ] Since I've just joined the list, I thought I'd introduce myself. If you've received this 'introductory blurb' before personally, my apologies! My name is Peter Gifford, I live in Sydney, Australia and I run a small graphic design company called Universal Head Graphics. The Empire of the Petal Throne has always had 'a special place in my heart' - I spent many hours of my youth immersed in the world of Tekumel - but I'd put it all aside for many years until I recently discovered a copy of "The Man of Gold", the paperback by MAR Barker. All the atmosphere came flooding back!! Now that I'm a professional graphic designer I find it frustrating that this fantastic creation has never been published with major backing. For example, the cramped layout of my copy of Swords & Glory Vol1 makes it nearly unreadable. It seems a shame that Tolkein's MiddleEarth is known the world over but Barker's Tekumel is known only to a relatively small group of role-playing gamers (or so it seems). It would be a worthy achievement to get Tekumel the public recognition it deserves. So I thought it was time to attempt to give the world of Tekumel some more exposure, and also try and create some visuals that reflect some of its unique atmosphere. I thought I'd attempt to create something that could act as a 'nexus' for Tekumel fans, and also try and get more people interested in the world (and who knows, maybe a major publisher). I've already had positive feedback from people who had never heard of Tekumel. The new website is at: http://www.magna.com.au/~unihead/tekumel/ There's not much content there yet, but the basic site structure is set up and ready to be filled. I would love to eventually get Professor Barker's blessing for the site (apparently he's aware it exists), but in the meantime I welcome comments, contributions and ideas from all those interested in Tekumel and the development of this site. I'm a better designer than writer, so I need help in preparing short summaries of Tekumel information for the "unitiated". Visit the site and you'll see what I mean. For example, I've just begun the Nonhuman section, with a blurb and an illustration on the Ayoggya. At the moment the text is paraphrased from Swords and Glory, but I'd prefer original descriptions of about the same length. It may be however that Professor Barker doesn't mind me slavishly copying selected extracts - I've yet to discuss it with him. Some other notes: Yep, it uses a bit of JavaScript, there's one relatively large graphic on the home page - obviously its not designed for old browsers. I wanted to make something that's exciting and very visual though, not just slabs of text. Do you think I'm alienating too many visitors? There is a lower-bandwidth home page however. Obviously this MY personal interpretation of Tekumel, others, including Professor Barker's, may be very different. Hopefully the look and feel will evolve with continued input. Do you think people who are interested in Tekumel will be interested in a site like this? Are you? The whole-thing is of course non-profit; the only personal advantage I can imagine out of the whole thing is if one day there is finally some high-quality published material on Tekumel, hopefully I can get a stab at being the graphic designer! That's about it for now. Visit the site, and please write to me with your comments and hopefully, your contributions. Let's give this incredible work of imagination the exposure it deserves. Looking forward to the material on this list - thanks! Regards, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peter Gifford Email: ----- //525 [Moderator's Note: Larry Hull responds to Dwight about the miniatures he ] [ asked about. (Larry's company makes Tekumel miniatures.)] [ Sorry about the long delay. I worked 42+ hours between Friday morning ] [ and Sunday at 7:00. I'll keep popping stuff out as I can. Thanks. ] Dwight Grosso asked about anyone having some of the 'old' (as if the other figures are 'new'.....) taller Ahoggya. We removed them from the catalog since they are WAY out of scale. However, I still have the molds for them and could produce them as a special request. As far as other 'new' figures go..... We are MORE than willing to add to the line of miniatures. We will produce any figure that is appropriate to Tekumel and that I have a well sculpted master for. So if anyone wants to see new legions represented, just sculpt one! Anyone who feels he might be able to do some sculpting, contact me directly at PHDGames1@AOL.com and we can 'talk' about it. Larry Hull President, PHD Games, inc. ----- //526 [Moderator's Note: Keith Dalluhn rsponds to Jeff about the OAL. ] >[Moderator's Note: Jeff Myhre asks about the OAL. And as an added bonus] >[ we get more news of things happening in the empire! ] >>I have a question for the blueroom crowd. With the civil war raging >>in Tsolyanu, what has happened to the Omnipotent Azure Legion? If one >>can say that Tsolyanu has a "national" institution, OAL is it -- much >>like the only "modern" institution in Latin American in the 1950s was >>the military. >>Has the OAL fragmented, or is it working to secure peace? And if so >>what kind of peace? Is it focusing on regaining lost territory? Or >>has it become a tool of one interest or another? For some of us, the current political situation has been cause of no small trouble. For me, the balancing act between temple and OAL has been tenuous at best. It seems that at my fief every week brings another faction of another army laying claim to my lands and buildings. As soon as I heard that Dhichune had taken the throne I removed my OAL ring. I soon found out that many of my contacts had been killed and that the 'new' OAL had been issued new rings. As for myself, I am doing my best to help whoever I can to get Dhichune off the throne. In my personal opinion many ancient laws were broken in calling the Kolumejalim, and he needs to be removed. Once that is done, my support will be thrown to Mirusiya. Although I am a priest of Thumis, I have reasons to support him. One day I hope to be able to submit myself to the golden tower that I may be placed back into my position within the OAL, but until that time I difuse the question 'Who do you support?' with my now favorite phrase, 'I support the Petal Throne.' Sanjesh HiKirisaya, Scholar high priest, Temple of Thukis, Usenanu. ----- //527 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul, William Faulkner and Jim Chapin respond to the] [ favored objects of the Gods question. Bill also ] [ announces that he has worked up some new miniatures ] [ rules, and that he needs a few beta testers/proofreaders] [ to help him out. Please pick up his address from the ] [ message below and reply to him directly. Don't just use] [ your reply command because it will come to me instead of] [ Bill. ] Joe's Response. Some of this material appears in _Mitlanyal_, but since Bob is going to go blabbing the secrets of the Universe, I'll break security and make sure people get the *accurate* ones. Numbers are from the "Tsolyani Numerology" article, written by Korumtai hiMnettukeng and translated by Firu Ba Yeker. (Incidentally, I typed it in as source material for Bob. If he and the Noble Firu think it's appropriate, I can make electronic copy of the article available for the Blue Room Archive. If it's all in _Mitlanyal_ anyway, I won't.) [Moderator's Note: Hey, why not put it up on the Blue Room site in the ] [ artilces directory? It would make a fine addition. ] On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, The Blue Room Mailing List wrote: >There IS a "numerology" entry for each of the Ten outlining their >numerological preferences. I don't have the book in front of me >to give you any more detail, except what memory serves: Hnalla is 1, >Karakan 3, Vimuhla 9, Sarku 5, Dlamelish 8(?). Each God also enjoys >the corresponding letter of the Tsolyani alphabet. Various techniques >involve meditating upon these holy numerals and letters to achive >harmony with the God. Some of those are right. Attempting to harmonize with Lady Dlamelish using the number of Lord Ksarul, however, probably won't, er, put a smile on your face. Hnalla: 1 Avanthe: 2 Karakan: 3 Belkhanu: 4 Sarku: 5 Thumis: 6 Hru'u: 7 Ksarul: 8 Vimuhla: 9 Dlamelish: 10 Want to know the letters? They're in _Mitlanyal_. Further deponent sayeth not. Joe -- Bill's Response. >>>I would also like to find >>>out about sacred numbers (3 for Vimuhla for ex,),favored days of the >>>week and >>>the like. Found the answer int the Spring 1987 edition of the Imperial Courier. The Professer wrote an article on Tsolyani Numerology. The gods numbers are: 1 - Hnalla (of Course) 2 - Avanthe 3 - Karakan 4 - Belkhanu 5 - Sarku 6 - Thumis 7 - Hru'u 8 - Ksarul 9 - Vimhula 10 - Dlamelish As for the other items, the priests generally favor items resembling their colors. Hence saphires for Avanthe, Rubies for Karakan. Some of this is also set down in the above article where Phil talks about the mediation required in the study. The article is essentially an overview of the Tsolyani equivalent of Qabalah. Speaking of such, the study of Qabalah can give some decent insight to the Tsolyani Gods. The archtypes the Barker uses for the Tsolyani gods are present in our owm mystical heritage. (to some degree or another). BTW, with the several postings about miniatures, I'm getting ready to start doing some playtesting of my own version of the Tekumel miniature rules. They are a combination of Missum, Qadardalikoi, and my own ideas. My goal has been to keep the feel of Tekumel battles and on simplicity. Most Tekumel miniatures are played at conventions these days, so it is important to have simple (but not simplistic) rules. I should have the first cut at the preliminary rules done in the next month or so, and I would like to have a few playtesters to proof-read my rules and to see how they work in real games. I am ony interested in about 2 or 3 people at this time, and you must be willing to actually play the game (or GM it for others). If you are interested, drop me a line at wdf@indra.com. Bill Faulkner -- Jim's Comments Charlie Goering might have been referring to the preferences of the demons/extra-planar creatures that "work" for the various Gods, as referred to in the spell details in the spell volume in one of the earlier rules incarnations. Jim Chapin ----- //528 [Moderator's Note: Bruce Roberts has accumulated a product list for Tekumel.] [ The URL for it is included below. His list seems fairly ] [ complete, but he asks for help on some items. ] I've been collecting Tekumel material for a while, and I have compiled a fairly extensive Tekumel product list: http://www.halcyon.com/www2/bwr/ept_list.html I would appreciate any comments/suggestions/corrections for this list from members of the blueroom mailing list. Thanks, Bruce Roberts bwr@halcyon.com ----- //529 [Moderator's Note: Brendan Knox asks about heretics and how they are handled] [ on Tekumel. The Professor answers. ] >Would it be possible that certain temples could have built prison facilities >for 'heretics' of the faith, along the lines of the dungeon under the Golden >Tower (if I recall that was the place). It would be interesting to see who >has been 'locked' away in a Ruby Eye and forgotten when the facility was >abandoned over the ages. Gamewise, the unsuspecting release of some old >and possibly dangerous person would provide an excellent recurring enemy or >friend as it may be... I'd like to know if the temples consider this option >when dealing with 'nasties' as opposed to killing them outright. Maybe those >that 'quietly disappear' don't always end up dead. >Brendan Knox I don't know of prisons built for "heretics." Heresy -- disbelief in established doctrine(s) -- is relatively rare in Tsolyanu's pluralistic, rather tolerant society. It is not often a problem. The Tsolyani have many religious societies, some of which are "secret" and some are political or social. These would have been considered "heresy" in a mediaeval European societal context, but on Tekumel there is no *single* established doctrine, no Pope, no dogma, etc. Hence, the concept of "heresy" rarely arises. Much more common are crimes against the Concordat, as well as personal crimes: e.g. theft from temple funds or goods, peculation, the selling of promotions, fights between priests, failure to perform assigned duties, etc. A few priests recently have been charged with treachery by Emperor Dhich'une -- they chose another of the Imperial Princes instead of him, and did things that he considered too much. It is possible, of course, for a felon (of any sort) to end up imprisoned in a Ruby Eye or other device of the Ancients. I have used that gambit myself. Regards, Phil ----- //530 [Moderator's Note: Dwight Grosso asks about Ruvadis, the Wearer of Eyes. ] >On the subject of miscellaneous questions, I have a question about Ruvadis, >the Wearer of Eyes. Just who is this guy? I know he's a wizard of some note >from the map guide in the back of my copy of the rules, but who is he? I used >him as an NPC for the game I'm running. I figured with a name like that, he >just has to be interesting... maybe even sinister? I'd love to hear the >background on this esteemed gentleman. I don't know much about Ruvadis myself. He has a "tower" (ruined, possibly the keep of some ancient fortress) outside Jakalla. It is rumoured that Ruvadis was a Bednalljan (?) who became one of the Undying Wizards. One story says that he was ousted from that high position because of his inordinate loyalty to the Pariah Deities, specifically the Goddess Whose Name Cannot be Mentioned. He was imprisoned in his tower with no companions and nothing to do but curse his miserable, lonely fate. No one can befriend him or communicate with him, except in dreams and "visions." He is thus thought of as a sort of "ghost" by the peasants and townsmen in the neighbourhood. Visits by Imperial officers, tax collectors, scholars, etc. have all proved fruitless, and not all of the visitors have returned alive (or even dead!) Those who have visited the deserted, broken tower have never found their way into any underground tunnels or caverns, but that does not mean that they don't exist. I put Ruvadis' tower on the map just in case somebody wanted a rather dangerous adventure close to the city. Otherwise, one might have to spend days, weeks, or months on the road to a place where "real adventure" might be found. Regards, Phil ----- //531 [Moderator's Note: Dwight Grosso asks about the manufacture of armour on ] [ Tekumel, specifically, chainmail type armour. ] >I have a question about the manufacture of armor on Tekumel. Chlen hide being >the wonderful stuff that it is must be very maleable. My question is about >the manufacture of mail. Traditional Terran chainmail is made from wire >wrapped on a mandril, lapped and butted and then sometimes riveted. How is >this possible with something like chlen hide? Scale, lamellar, brigantime, >bezainted, even ring mail seem easy enough to explain. How is chainmail type >armor manufactured by the tanners? For the life of me I am at a loss to >explain how rings of this stuff are held together, unless they are merely >jussed butted and lapped and left at that. >Dwight Grosso Chlen-hide "mail" consists of rings stamped from the smaller scraps and remains of larger pieces. These are joined together with other rings which have been cut open and are later sealed shut again with a special compound known to the armourers' clans. This is equivalent to European butted and welded links, though not as strong. It does use up many scraps of chlen-hide that otherwise would be wasted. Using poor children as near-slaves to produce it, this stuff is made in quantities large enough to create mail coats, aventails, etc. Regards, Phil ----- //532 [Moderator's Note: Great News from Bob Alberti today about Mitlanyal. Sorry] [ things have been so quiet, beginning of school here. I ] [ have been busy creating thousands of accounts, etc. I ] [ should be getting some new stuff out late this week or ] [ this weekend. ] Bob Alberti informed me today that he might consider doing a pre-publication run of Mitlanyal. He is printing a few copies that should be done by Monday. These copies are pretty much for copyright purposes, and to shop around to a publisher. They would have NO artwork or Maps, just 208 pages of text. He is considering doing a pre-publication run if there is enough interest. It would probably involve a pre-payment of funds, and a deadline as to when the payment MUST reach him. So, if you are interested, you should write to Bob and let him know your interest. Remember, this is pre-production, and it does NOT entitle you to a published version when it is released. You'll have to visit the store just like everyone else. If you are interested, I suggest that you write to Bob directly at this address: alberti@freenet.msp.mn.us Chris -- //533 [Moderator's Note: Gordon and I finished our vampire discussion in private ] [ email and came to some interesting conclusions. Here is] [ the relevant part of that conversation. ] [From Gordon] 7/26/97 Message 507: Yeshua Kristos, Chris, you really tore a bleeding -chunk- out of my hindquarters here, didn't you then? I can't recall the last time I was 'flogged round the fleet' from first paragraph to last like that. Yow. As to your oft-repeated question 'Why,' well, why what? Why do the Ssu have a permanent case of 'peel,' why do the Pe Choi drown in a half- meter of water, why is it 'the Five Empires' and not 'the Eight'? Because that's the way the world came off the potter's wheel, that's why. "Why does it have to be that way? Even if it were the same, why would that imply it was utilized in the same way?" Well, I can only give you an insultingly obvious reason-- because it IS that way. (As you know, a locomotive boiler involves fire-heat and steam-pressure. Now try building one entirely of balsa wood. Oops-- didn't work too well, did it? That's because of... the way they are. Steam and balsa alike.) "... but the principles involved could be vastly different." They could be, but they're -not-; the only variance, if it is one, is the 'explanation,' which Prof Barker himself said was a conscious decision to reflect a science fictional basis. Everything else-- scrolls, chants, amulets, 'demons,' &c., is classic thaumaturgy, as practiced with only local variations all around the world. (Like, sun-worship practiced from China to Ireland-- the long way around-- as an obvious example.) Every one of those cultures contains the undead legends too, the vryolakos, the nosferatu, the vampire, Bamnµp, whatever they happen to call it. Why should you be so explicitly choosy on one point, when none of these cultures are? "Why? What is the rationale for a creature to shrink from a priest/mage from another temple? In some cases, the temples work with their counterpart more effectively with others of their own group. I just don't buy your hypothesis... Am I missing the point?" Well, only because you come upon it from the opposite direction; what I was saying is, why NOT? "What is the rationale for a creature to shrink from a priest/mage from another temple?" Are you suggesting that NONE EVER do? No Tsuru'um creature of crawling chaos ever feels discretion to be the better part of valor when confronted by a sorcerer priest of Stability-- or vice versa? "I like the fact that Tekumelani undead are different." Yah, so I gather... but I'm arguing the traditionalist view here. Prof Barker knew what he was writing about, after all, he'd seen it or heard its counterparts extensively. The one -whopping- fundamental social change that exists is the absence of riding animals-- in the Bronze Age the absence of iron was just as complete as though it weren't there to -be- mined, as is the case on Tekumel. But even the flint axe-makers at Great Langdale knew about horses. Okay-- that's the one change. But the people of Tekumel know about flint... They also work magic in the same traditions; they bury their dead. You see what I'm saying, here. If a 'priest' can chant a 'spell' to work 'magic,' then why can't 'vampire' mean just what those other words mean-- that is, have the accustomed meaning as well? Same processes... same mechanisms... same results. (Heck, the jajgi, as given, could be undone by direct sunlight. Whoopty do... but that would creep into the folklore, just as it did here for who-knows-why. The jajgi would simply be like the ninja-- traditionally, only seen at night, and then you don't -want- to.) What I say is a) there's nothing -I- have ever read that FORBIDS the notion-- and that's a thumpingly heavy collection of materials, by now-- and b) it ought not, then, to be thrown out with -quite- such force, without an equally solid, understandable reason. Again: In saying 'they ain't none cuz I saez they aint none,' you're departing from established Terrestrial precedent, upon which Tekumel's culture is based and has evolved. Bit of a -jump-, doing that, eh? It also puts you in no better position than where someone else could just say. "If your Tekumel doesn't have 'classic undead', fine. Just don't expect them to have vanished from anyone elses..." -- I don't mean that misquote to be insulting, I'm just saying, what makes your version 'better'? [My reply to Gordon.] > Message 507: Yeshua Kristos, Chris, you really tore a bleeding >-chunk- out of my hindquarters here, didn't you then? I can't recall the >last time I was 'flogged round the fleet' from first paragraph to last like >that. > Yow. Sorry! I just don't understand your need to have classic vampires on Tekumel. > > As to your oft-repeated question 'Why,' well, why what? Why do the > Ssu have a permanent case of 'peel,' why do the Pe Choi drown in a half- > meter of water, why is it 'the Five Empires' and not 'the Eight'? > Because that's the way the world came off the potter's wheel, > that's why. You've stolen my point! It came off the wheel without those classic vampires. Why are you so keen on adding them? >"Why does it have to be that way? Even if it were the same, why would that >imply it was utilized in the same way?" > Well, I can only give you an insultingly obvious reason-- because >it IS that way. (As you know, a locomotive boiler involves fire-heat and >steam-pressure. Now try building one entirely of balsa wood. Oops-- didn't >work too well, did it? That's because of... the way they are. Steam and >balsa alike.) Remember, ~60,000 years of evolution have spun by. Things could be vastly different. Who knows, maybe Jajgi are the natural extension of classical vampires. Maybe in a rich magic environment, blood drinking, bat and wolf morphing, mist evarporation are no longer necessary to survival! :) >"... but the principles involved could be vastly different." > They could be, but they're -not-; the only variance, if it is one, >is the 'explanation,' which Prof Barker himself said was a conscious >decision to reflect a science fictional basis. > Everything else-- scrolls, chants, amulets, 'demons,' &c., is >classic thaumaturgy, as practiced with only local variations all around the >world. (Like, sun-worship practiced from China to Ireland-- the long way >around-- as an obvious example.) > Every one of those cultures contains the undead legends too, the >vryolakos, the nosferatu, the vampire, Bamnµp, whatever they happen to call >it. > Why should you be so explicitly choosy on one point, when none of >these cultures are? Are they the same. I thought the undead myths were all fairly different. The one thing was that they needed blood to survive. Some more than others, but I am not an historian of Earth mythology. >"Why? What is the rationale for a creature to shrink from a priest/mage >from another temple? In some cases, the temples work with their >counterpart more effectively with others of their own group. I just don't >buy your hypothesis... Am I missing the point?" > Well, only because you come upon it from the opposite direction; >what I was saying is, why NOT? Because there is nothing intrinsically existent in a priest or priestess. If they are casting a spell, that is another story. >"What is the rationale for a creature to shrink from a priest/mage from >another temple?" > Are you suggesting that NONE EVER do? No Tsuru'um creature of >crawling chaos ever feels discretion to be the better part of valor when >confronted by a sorcerer priest of Stability-- or vice versa? If the sorceror is wielding spells, or weapons, or techno-magical devices, you betcha! If it is just a shoeless tattered priest, with no visible means of protection, well, burp! >"I like the fact that Tekumelani undead are different." > > Yah, so I gather... but I'm arguing the traditionalist view here. >Prof Barker knew what he was writing about, after all, he'd seen it or >heard its counterparts extensively. > The one -whopping- fundamental social change that exists is the >absence of riding animals-- in the Bronze Age the absence of iron was just >as complete as though it weren't there to -be- mined, as is the case on >Tekumel. But even the flint axe-makers at Great Langdale knew about horses. > Okay-- that's the one change. But the people of Tekumel know about >flint... They also work magic in the same traditions; they bury their dead. Some burn, which we also do. It is rumored that some eat their dead, too. > You see what I'm saying, here. If a 'priest' can chant a 'spell' to >work 'magic,' then why can't 'vampire' mean just what those other words >mean-- that is, have the accustomed meaning as well? Just because spellcasting exists, and magic exists, does not mean that vampires must exist. > Same processes... same mechanisms... same results. (Heck, the >jajgi, as given, could be undone by direct sunlight. Whoopty do... but that >would creep into the folklore, just as it did here for who-knows-why. The >jajgi would simply be like the ninja-- traditionally, only seen at night, >and then you don't -want- to.) As I said before, Jajgi could be the evolution of a vampire. I just don't know. > What I say is > a) there's nothing -I- have ever read that FORBIDS the notion-- >and that's a thumpingly heavy collection of materials, by now-- and > b) it ought not, then, to be thrown out with -quite- such force, >without an equally solid, understandable reason. Again: In saying 'they >ain't none cuz I saez they aint none,' you're departing from established >Terrestrial precedent, upon which Tekumel's culture is based and has >evolved. Talking from a earth present point of view, nothing we know of Tekumel says that there are any. The Professor has the last word on that. As far as I know, the Professor "saez they aint none" so I am happy to accept that fact. > Bit of a -jump-, doing that, eh? Nope. It is a moot point, as we are talking about fiction, though! :) > It also puts you in no better position than where someone else >could just say. "If your Tekumel doesn't have 'classic undead', fine. Just >don't expect them to have vanished from anyone elses..." >-- I don't mean that misquote to be insulting, I'm just saying, what makes >your version 'better'? No insult taken. That is fine. It just is worded a bit differently. I din't mean to take such a chunk out of your hindquarters. I just couldn't (and can't) understand why it seemed you "needed" vampires to exist. I agree that it is an interesting idea, with respect to history, and that their view would be unique. (or was that someone elses idea??) I am getting confused. :) Here, have that chunk back.... Sorry, didn't meant to go overboard. Chris [Gordon's Reply] 7/26/97 Chris: "I just couldn't (and can't) understand why it seemed you 'needed' vampires to exist. I agree that it is an interesting idea, with respect to history, and that their view would be unique. (or was that someone elses idea??) I am getting confused. :)" No, that was me-- and that is the limit of my interest in the matter, really. As I see it, you gave the quietus to the whole thing; I asked 'why not,' and you gave some solid reasons: "Remember, ~60,000 years of evolution have spun by. Things could be vastly different. Who knows, maybe Jajgi are the natural extension of classical vampires. Maybe in a rich magic environment, blood drinking, (&c.) are no longer necessary to survival!" Okay. Works for me-- that IS a heck of a long time. "The Professor has the last word on that. As far as I know, the Professor 'saez they aint none' so I am happy to accept that fact." Yah, I guess I'd have to also, happy or not, eh? On the other hand, what's a 'discussion group' -for-, if not to rouse up interest, thoughtful consideration, and thrown pottery every once in a while? [Agreed!] G J N P.S. "If it is just a shoeless tattered priest, with no visible means of protection, well, burp!" That's the funniest thing I think I've ever heard you say. G. [Steve Woodcock also added.] (chris-- (thought i'd make a quick response to Mr. Neff's comments, and thanks for your own contribution, but i doubt if you want to get into a discussion of game mechanics, so i'll just add this last. . .) just to clarify a couple of things: i mentioned the Qon priest specifically because Lord Qon's sphere of influence was specifically anti-demons ("the guardian of the gates of hell against those who would come forth," etc etc), and thus his servitors would probably be the exorcists of choice in Tsolyanu. i mentioned the World of Darkness series for a couple of reasons: they provide a system (or point of view) of playing 'monsters' or 'outsiders', which might be an interesting way to experience Tekumel; they have simpler game mechanics, emphasizing role-playing over roll-playing; and they're pretty popular--perhaps more familiar to newcomers? At least one website has a number of tekumel-other game system translations available, so this was just one more suggestion, although as the Professor replied, they are extremely medieval/judeochristian (etc) oriented and there is little tekumelyani mythology/iconography to extrapolate new 'paradigms for the supernatural' from. . .alas. just a thought. steven w. ----- //534 [Moderator's Note: Professor Barker answers a question about General ] [ Kettukal's Exile from Shawn Bond. ] [BTW, do any of you chaps over in the UK know what happened to Aidan Dixon? ] [ He has gone quiet and all email to him bounces back. If any of you ] [ know him, (and I wouldn't ask if I didn't remember some of you knowing ] [ him) could you find out what the deal is? ] >Subject: General Kettukal's Exile > >I have been thinking of involving my players in those halcyon days of the >Petal Throne just before the war with Yan Kor. I think it would be fun to >involve the characters in the political intrigues that resulted in the First >General's political arrest at Chene Ho (and later be there when he's >reinstated as First General over the armies of the Seal when Yan Kor comes >beating of the borders). I'm sure Prof. Barker will have to do some pretty >strenuous recall on the specifics, but I (for one) would like to hear more >about the machinations of the Noble Party and their success in having >Kettukal blacklisted. What did they do? How did they do it? and who was >involved...? Wish I could help, but I don't have any memory of the details now -- Alzheimers or just plain old age. My memory is going, Somebody who kept a running journal of events might know. >p.s. any further news on my name-sake? Has he done anything else since >assisting the future Emperor (read "Rereshqala") in taking Jakalla? He's been involved in Rereshqala's campaign up north through the centre of the country and in the Battle just south of Usenanu when Eselne's forces tried to cross there -- and got roundly beaten. He's still alive and reasonably well, though "River Fever" has kept him in bed for a while recently. Regards, Phil ----- //535 [Moderator's Note: David Cheng informs us that James Roach, creator of the ] [ Fanzine, Realms of Wonder passed away recently. The Prof] [ adds a note of condolence. ] I got a call a couple of days ago. It was Tim Eichhorst, one of the guys who regularly contributed to James Roach's Tekumel-heavy fanzine, _Realms of Wonder_. Tim regrets to tell us that Jim Roach died on July 26th, 1997. We didn't really get into the details of his passing, but I know from my personal conversations with Jim that he had recurring health problems. Jim produced over 30 issues of _Realms of Wonder_ in the six-plus years he self-published the fanzine. The contents were almost entirely fictional stories inspired by his alternate-Tekumel house campaign. My favorite pieces were the retouched photos of his extensive Tekumel miniatures collection, and of Jim and his fellow players in Tekumelyani costume. (I regret I was not a subscriber from the beginning, so I can't give you a more accurate account of when Jim started, or just how many issues he produced.) Jim's page layout skills developed from not-so-good to passable as the magazine progressed. Some discounted his efforts because of this. And, some Tekumel fans have criticized the alternate-ness of his alternate Tekumel. I'd like to point out that Jim Roach's dedication to promoting Tekumel motivated him to produce a fanzine for several years, spending money out of his own pocket to do so. Let's remember him positively for this, because that's more than most of us have done. *David Cheng August 20, 1997 [Professor Barker's addition.] Please forward my condolences on the passing of James Roach to the appropriate persons. Such a devoted fan of Tekumel deserves to be recognised for his contribution. I did not always agree with his view of Tekumelani society, but I did respect his energy and loyalty to the mythos. Sadly, M. A. R. Barker ----- //536 [Moderator's Note: Jim Chapin found the list of prefered items he was looking] [ for. It was from the Players Book of Swords and Glory. ] Specifically (now that I have found it!) I was referring to the "Demonology" spell, listed on pp. 175-178 of Swords and Glory, Volume 2. Avanthe's Spirits of Air, Water and Earth bargain for magical knowledge; Belkhanu's Voyagers of the Farther Isles bargain only for gold and yellow gems; Dlamelish's Aeriel Ones of Tu'unkelmu "bargain only for gold, silver, and other precious metals; they have no interest in gems and other items," Hnalla's Entities of Light bargain for magical devices, books, spells, scrolls, Hru'u's Demons of the Dark bargain only for articles made of steel or Sarku's enchanted copper; Karakan's Heroes of Glory and Chegarra's Warriors of Scarlet bargain only for articles of excellent or enchanted steel, although they may occasionally accept gold; Ksarul's Dwellers in Shadow bargain for anything blue, preferring blue gems, but occasionally accepting blue-lacquered armor or blue cloth; Gruganu's Azure Denizens accept the sacrifice of D5 intelligent beings; Sarku's Tsughiyur bargain for gems; his undead followers do not bargain but are sent by their master; Durritlamish's Half-People of Nguyom bargain for human flesh, while his Blind Ones of Hreshkaggetl want gold, gems, copper and armor (preferably enchanted copper); Thumis' Mighty Ones of the Pearl Mists want magical books and scrolls, but may accept a spell taken from memory; Ketengku's Watchers of the High Tower prefer spells taken directly from memory; Vimuhla's Flame Dragons want D5 intelligent beings sacrificed, while the Hre-Niriu want anything that can be set on fire. If I remember correctly, one can also influence the chance of divine intervcention by sacrificing appropriate things to the appropriate Gods. Does anyone remember in which set of rules these things are listed? [Moderator's Note: If I remember correctly, those rules were in the original] [ TSR rules set. I don't think they were in SnG. Unless ] [ they were to be in the 3rd Volume of that rules set. ] Jim Chapin ----- //537 [Moderator's Note: Brendan Knox asks if anyone has any knowledge about the ] [ areas north of Ru. ] Hi, I'm currently running a game north of Ru, Hundranu Rise region. Has anyone been here before? I myself haven't managed to visit this region of the Empire. What kind of landscape, people, produce etc. did others encounter? Was there a leaning to any one particular diety? Thanks Brendan ----- //538 [Moderator's Note: Eric Olson has done some research on the Tsolyani Legions] [ and their Religious affiliations. ] Religious Affiliations of Tsolyani Legions: Being a new member of the Blue Room, I wanted to see if I could add something to the general knowledge base or at least spark some discussion. I decided to base my input on one of my favorite documents, the Deeds of the Ever-Glorious. Having read the document at least a dozen times, I felt that there was an imbalance between those legions who were directly affiliated with the Gods of Stability and those directly affiliated with the Gods of Change. What I have attempted to do is break down the predominantly Human/Nluss legions by religious affiliation. I hope the list will be useful as a reference. Below is a breakdown of the 70 Human/Nluss legions by religious affiliation. I have not included the Omnipotent Azure Legion or the Legion of Ketl due to their specialized functions. The list groups each God with his Cohort and also lists the number of military cohorts (at the time of the printing of Deeds/Armies of Tekumel Vol. I - pre-war) directly affiliated with the God/Cohort. Gods/Cohorts of Stability: 16 Legions, 223 Cohorts Hnalla: (40) The Legion of Hnalla, Master of Light; 4th Heavy Infantry (20) The Legion of the Joyful Clan of Noble Vrayani; 3rd Slingers (20) Belkanu/Qon: (22) The Legion of the Clan of the Golden Sphere; 13th Medium Infantry (14) The Legion of the Defense Against Evil; 27th Medium Infantry (8) Thumis/Ketengkhu: (20) The Legion of the Lord of Wisdom; 22nd Heavy Infantry (20) Avanthe/Dilinala: (29) The Legion of Morusai the Chieftain; 40th Medium Infantry (8) The Legion of the Twelve Paths of Avanthe; 9th Slingers (9) The Legion of the Sapphire Kirtle; 12th Light Infantry (12) Karakan/Chegarra: (112) The Legion of Serqu, Sword of the Empire; 14th Heavy Infantry (20) The Legion of Mnashu of Thri'il; 10th Medium Infantry (17) The Golden Sunburst legion; 11th Medium Infantry (17) The Cohorts of Chegarra, the Hero King; 12th Medium Infantry (15) The Battalions of Sryma of Vra; 39th Medium Infantry (11) The Legion of Lord Kharihaya; 14th Crossbow (18) The Legion of the Inverted Hand; 27th Light Infantry (15) Legion of the Wind of Iron; 10th Crossbow (9) Gods/Cohorts of Change: 24 Legions, 269 Cohorts Hruu/Wuru: (28) The Legion of the Clan of the Sweet Singers of Nakome; 12th Heavy Infantry (16) The Legion of the Deep Purple Dark; 16th Heavy Infantry (3) The Legion of the Many-Legged Serpent; 20th Medium Infantry (9) Sarku/Durritlamish: (80) The Legion of the Scales of Brown; 9th Heavy Infantry (16) The Phalanx of Lord Durritlamish of the Rotted Face; 6th Medium Infantry (16) The Battalions of the Seal of the Worm; 9th Medium Infantry (15) The Armored Vision of Death; 29th Medium Infantry (7) The Legion of the Peaks of Kraa; 12th Archers (8) The Battalions of Vrishtara the Mole; 2nd Sappers (18) Ksarul/Gruganu: (40) The Legion of Heketh of Purdimal; 17th Heavy Infantry (18) The Legion of the Night of Shadows; 15th Medium Infantry (7) The Legion of the Prince of the Blue Room; 35th Medium Infantry (9) The Regiment of the Knower of Spells; 5th Crossbow (6) Dark Trinity: (13) The Slayers of Cities; 5th Sappers (13) Dlamelish/Hrihayal: (8+) The Legion of Kaikama of Bey Su; 36th Medium Infantry (8) The Legion of the Translucent Emerald; ?? Heavy Infantry (??) Vimuhla/Chiteng: (100) The Legion of the Givers of Sorrow; 8th Heavy Infantry (16) The Legion of the Searing Flame; 10th Heavy Infantry (16) The Legion of Lord Kurukaa; 25th Heavy Infantry (6) The Legion of the Lord of Red Devastation; 18th Medium Infantry (17) The Legion of Storm of Fire; 21st Medium Infantry (9) The Legion of the Clan of the Broken Bough; 19th Archers (15) The Legion of Glorious Destiny; 9th Crossbow (16) The Legion of the Citadel of Glory; 13th Crossbow (5) Unaffiliated Legions: 30 Of the unaffiliated Legions; 13 have commanders who worship Stability Gods 03 have commanders that worship Change Gods 14 have no clear affiliation The balance between Stability and Change is further muddied by the composition of the unaffiliated legions. If you assume that the Legions follow the broad beliefs (Stability/Change) of the commanding officers, then the balance of Light and Dark balances out, roughly 29 Light, 27 Dark. If you don't make that assumption and instead the unaffiliated legions are opened to all faiths, then the Stability/Change numbers are 16 to 24, a decided advantage to Change. Currently the legions affiliated with stability tend to be larger then the legions of change. Part of the imbalance is probably due to the massive increase in Sarku legions/cohorts due to Dichiune. However, raw numbers don't give you any idea of the actual strength of the religiously affiliated legions. For example one Karakan Legion, the 14th Heavy Infantry - Serqu, Sword of the Empire, could mop the field against all three Hruu/Wuru legions (depending on battle magic and use of special weapons). I would be interested in getting a feel for the general affiliation (Stability/Change) of the unaffiliated legions. If possible, it would be nice to see which legions have sided with each candidate for the throne. Finally, is there any way to update Deeds to reflect the recent conflict? Interesting sidelines; look at the representation of Sarku/Durritlamish vs. Belkanu/Qon (6 vs. 2) and Thumis/Ketengkhu vs. Ksarul/Gruganu (1 vs. 4). ----- //539 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti responds to Eric's article on Legion Religious] [ Affiliations. ] > I felt that there was an imbalance between > those legions who were directly affiliated with the Gods of Stability > and those directly affiliated with the Gods of Change. > Gods/Cohorts of Stability: 16 Legions, 223 Cohorts > Hnalla: (40) > Belkanu/Qon: (22) > Thumis/Ketengkhu: (20) > Avanthe/Dilinala: (29) > Karakan/Chegarra: (112) > > Gods/Cohorts of Change: 24 Legions, 269 Cohorts > Hruu/Wuru: (28) > Sarku/Durritlamish: (80) > Ksarul/Gruganu: (40) > Dlamelish/Hrihayal: (8+) > Vimuhla/Chiteng: (100) > > Unaffiliated Legions: 30 Well, what's interesting about these numbers is not so much the simple Stability/Change ratios, but the manner in which they represent the interests of these various Temples in military affairs. This is a more useful idea of why the numbers are what they are than a simple test of Stability versus Change. Remember that for the Tsolyani, this Stability/Change dichotomy is not a cause for conflict but simply part of the culture, much the same way that our culture has different religious philosophies. Yes, in times of trouble these differences can flare into open dispute, but for the most part they are simply the stuff of debate. The armies of the various legions are not poised to face each other, but to face the foes of the Empire. In civil conflicts (such as those going on right now) these armies don't so much align themselves simply along lines of Stability and Change, as according to the more complicated influences of loyalty, heritage, philosophy, politics, and religion, all taken together. The numbers as given provide a good measure of the political influence of each with the Military party in the Empire. Temples which are disinclined to an interest in military matters (Thumis, Dlamelish) have correspondingly fewer legions. Karakan and Vimuhla have many, of course. In the middle, particularly political Temples (Avanthe, Ksarul, Hru'u) have sufficient legions to lend them a voice in military politics and allow them to be "dealmakers." > I would be interested in getting a feel for the general > affiliation (Stability/Change) of the unaffiliated legions. If possible, > it would be nice to see which legions have sided with each candidate for > the throne. Finally, is there any way to update Deeds to reflect the > recent conflict? I'd think not for a few years -- most of the census takers sent out are either impressed into service and killed in battle, or slain by sentries. > > Interesting sidelines; look at the representation of > Sarku/Durritlamish vs. Belkanu/Qon (6 vs. 2) and Thumis/Ketengkhu vs. > Ksarul/Gruganu (1 vs. 4). Again, these numbers reflect the interest of those temples in military poltics. Ranked in order of such interest, we have Sarku, Ksarul, Belkhanu and Thumis, which is spot on. ----- //540 [Moderator's Note: Professor Barker provides some background on the Undead of] [ Tekumel. ] I have always figured "vampires" implied a Christian basis: the cross frightens them away, they morph into wolves and bats, which are animals that frightened northern Europeans; they fear sunlight (read: "the Light of God?"); they have hypnotic powers, as do various other mediaeval monsters, etc. Tekumel has long ago forgotten about Christianity -- it is much deader than Mithraism is to us. Sixty thousand years after the Great Fall is a *long* time. If you want comparisons with Terra, you would have to project the Eleusinian Mysteries or the worship of the goddess Sekhmet back much farther and then compare it with the Christianity of today. This still does not give enough time for the changes needed to reach the great Empire of Humanspace, which preceded the Time of Darkness on Tekumel. In any case, I have no *theological* ("religious?") basis for the creatures of Tekumel. They are not "creatures of the damned" or "monsters from hell." They are just poor beasties trying to make a living, like the rest of us. Some of this "evil" did creep into the first EPT because Gary Gygax wanted my book to mesh well with his and Dave Arneson's D-n-D. This was fine -- then. It was subsequently changed to reflect more of "Tekumel reality" in the later game versions, the Sourcebook, etc. There are indeed "undead" on Tekumel, but they are animated not by Satan (or other religiously-generated figures) but by the impersonal powers of spells which operate with energies from the Planes Beyond. Tekumelani feel a repugnance for dead bodies (stinky!) just as present-day Terrans do, and thus most temples do not participate in the raising of the undead. Only Sarku-Durritlamish are really interested -- for their own theological reasons -- and factions from the temples of Hru'u and Ksarul get into the act on occasion, particularly in setting guardians in the Tsu'urumyal. Hope this helps! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.