Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Somewhere back a while ago, Chirine was wondering how I thought things had changed since the early 80s.

(snipped, if that's all right)

But it's utterly alien to a lot of players these days. So I have observed.

I've been thinking about this quite a lot since you posted it. (I had a twenty-hour day Sunday, which is why I'm taking so long to get back to you.) I do agree with your points; I've noticed the same thing in my observations of game groups - and you'll be amused (or saddened) to hear that Phil said the same things about his 1990's players; he groused a lot in his letters that he felt like he was "Phil TV" for them", and was more of an entertainment module than a GM or storyteller.

I had much the same issues with First and Second Daughters (the first of five adopted kids we had) when putting them through high school. Books were passe, unless they could be read on the Internet; the overwhelming mantra was the 'tl;dr'. Getting them to interact with each other and the other players in the game sessions was a real chore, at first, and I really had to work at it to get them to look up from the smart phones to engage with the people across the table.

I think you and I come from a different time and place, and a very different world. We all read lots and lots of books, and devoured information about what we were gaming. We all started out from about he same 'database' of information, I think.

Back in 2002, when I started the current incarnation of my game group, I set out to recreate the vast library of books that Phil had introduced us to. Like Payne-Gallway's "The Crossbow", which was virtually the standard text of the gamer world we lived in. It's now largely unknown...

There's a guy who lambasted me on the Tekumel Yahoo group over my set of miniatures rules, and then reprinted my rules with the numbers 'corrected' to make them "more realistic" as he told me. His biggest gripe was the range of the Tekumelyani longbow; it was totally unrealistic, he told me (in the strongest possible terms) as the English longbow didn't have anywhere near that kind of range and accuracy.

I pointed out to him that Phil had based the longbow of his world on the Turkish longbow, which is not a simple self bow but a compound bow. The author of "The Crossbow" had sampled some of the examples of this weapon that are in the Topkopi Palace Museum in Istanbul (Constantinople, for us Byzantines), and Phil had used the actual data for his longbow.

Of course, the guy had never read the book, didn't know that it existed, and had a fit that I was citing it. Never heard anything back from him, after that, but you can still find his rules on line.

I just don't think people read all that much, any more...

I dunno...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Another thing I've noticed... whole bunches of people, at least on line, have all the sense of humor of a bent bicycle wheel. (and snipped again, sorry)

Well, yes. We had a lot of laughs, back then, and it never did seem to break our sense of what is being called 'immersion' these days. If anything, we were a lot more immersed in our games then people seem to be these days - who made and wore suits of armor to conventions? Is that 'immersion'? Is speaking as our PCs 'in game' and trying very hard to be properly polite 'immersion'?

I genuinely don't know.

Things just seem a lot more 'serious' these days. Back when you and I played, both in RPGs and miniatures, things seemed to be a lot less serious and a lot more full of laughter.

Could we run The Great Mos Eisely Spaceport Raid in today's gaming culture?

I don't know. I would like to think we could, but I would not go into it with anything in the way of expectations. I mean, I have run 'Braunsteins' quite a few times in recent years, but it's always a challenge to get the players in the right frame of mind...

I don't know; I just don't know...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

They're out there, but recruiting from players of later editions can be very frustrating all around. Non gamers are often the most fun to game with.

I can confirm that. Almost everybody in my current group started playing with me, but people that have cut their gaming teeth on a certain period of games are the hardest to play with.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Oh! Sorry!

I had been installing a door lock and knob in the office door for the Tekumel Foundation, after about a month of them trying to make a decision on what kind of door knob they wanted. I got the thing for them, and came into to the office to install the thing and found that one of the Directors had salvaged a different door, and that they wanted me to use that one. Never mind that all the holes for the hardware and the rebates for the hinges were now in the wrong place; I was told to shut up and get on with the job for them.

(Directors do not do manual labor; that's "a problem for the staff.")

When I collapsed, I had had power and hand tools all over the place as I was doing the install, and I persuaded the wife and daughter to clean up the sawdust, wood shavings, and tools and take them with us. They did, so we left the place a lot cleaner then we found it; they even cleaned up all the debris from the paramedics.

Sorry about the lack of clarity!

You're a better man than me, Chirine...
Better in the sense that I wouldn't have cared one bit for the mess, and left it to them to clean it up. Well, not the instruments, these I'd have insisted as well that we take along.
Of course, my chances of being in the same situation are compounded probability tending towards zero, because I simply don't own such tool!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I've been thinking about this quite a lot since you posted it. (I had a twenty-hour day Sunday, which is why I'm taking so long to get back to you.) I do agree with your points; I've noticed the same thing in my observations of game groups - and you'll be amused (or saddened) to hear that Phil said the same things about his 1990's players; he groused a lot in his letters that he felt like he was "Phil TV" for them", and was more of an entertainment module than a GM or storyteller.

I had much the same issues with First and Second Daughters (the first of five adopted kids we had) when putting them through high school. Books were passe, unless they could be read on the Internet; the overwhelming mantra was the 'tl;dr'. Getting them to interact with each other and the other players in the game sessions was a real chore, at first, and I really had to work at it to get them to look up from the smart phones to engage with the people across the table.

I think you and I come from a different time and place, and a very different world. We all read lots and lots of books, and devoured information about what we were gaming. We all started out from about he same 'database' of information, I think.

I've had a similar experience, but I thought said players were spoilt by the MMOs, frankly!

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Even more reason to get your book(s) finished and the times captured in print.
=
http://www.patmcnees.com/telling_your_story_29161.htm

With this, I totally agree!
Also, any reason to get the book finished is a good reason.

Originally Posted by Tod13

I think things like this vary a lot depending on the individual. My three players, all female, are 28, 21, and 31. They are all voracious readers and really smart. For them the engaging with the other players, and me as GM/NPCs, is the whole point of the game.

I was telling them about looking for a system for our next game and they all looked at me blankly. My wife goes, "we don't really care about the system/mechanics, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the role playing". She thinks it is so funny, the amount of time I spend researching and reading systems.

My wife is quite similar. She's a voracious reader and she gets system fast*, she just doesn't care which one we're using, as long as social actions aren't blocked artificially by the GM!

*I mean, she learned Legends of the Wulin while listening to me explaining it to someone else, and she doesn't even plan to play it! That's a system some people have trouble grasping by reading the rulebook.
And I know it's not because of my great skills in explaining stuff!
I wonder what would happen if I told people that on TBP.

Either way, yes, voracious reading seems to be the norm among people that would consider playing RPGs these days.

[QUOTE=Greentongue;857285]Even more reason to get your book(s) finished and the times captured in print.

I think so, too; it's the typing that take the time...

Originally Posted by Tod13

I think things like this vary a lot depending on the individual. My three players, all female, are 28, 21, and 31. They are all voracious readers and really smart. For them the engaging with the other players, and me as GM/NPCs, is the whole point of the game.

I was telling them about looking for a system for our next game and they all looked at me blankly. My wife goes, "we don't really care about the system/mechanics, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the role playing". She thinks it is so funny, the amount of time I spend researching and reading systems.

I think I'd agree with this. Some of the college-aged players I had were voracious readers, and enjoyed the chance to come over and read the books on the shelves...

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I can confirm that. Almost everybody in my current group started playing with me, but people that have cut their gaming teeth on a certain period of games are the hardest to play with.


You're a better man than me, Chirine...
Better in the sense that I wouldn't have cared one bit for the mess, and left it to them to clean it up. Well, not the instruments, these I'd have insisted as well that we take along.
Of course, my chances of being in the same situation are compounded probability tending towards zero, because I simply don't own such tool!


I've had a similar experience, but I thought said players were spoilt by the MMOs, frankly!


With this, I totally agree!
Also, any reason to get the book finished is a good reason.


My wife is quite similar. She's a voracious reader and she gets system fast*, she just doesn't care which one we're using, as long as social actions aren't blocked artificially by the GM!

*I mean, she learned Legends of the Wulin while listening to me explaining it to someone else, and she doesn't even plan to play it! That's a system some people have trouble grasping by reading the rulebook.
And I know it's not because of my great skills in explaining stuff!
I wonder what would happen if I told people that on TBP.

Either way, yes, voracious reading seems to be the norm among people that would consider playing RPGs these days.

Oh! Good observation, there! I've seen the same thing, myself.

Well, I was taught at a very young age to leave the place as clean or cleaner then when I found it. and I was not going to leave anything like my tools behind; they had to come with me, as they are just too expensive to be cheaply replaced.

I think I'd agree with you about the MMOs, from incidents I've seen.

I'm working on it!

Very cool that your wife is such a great reader! Congratulations!

And your last point may be right on track, from what I saw on Sunday when the tour group came through the game room...

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Hello. It's been awhile...Question. How easy or hard is it for a noble or high clan member to travel around incognito(but not by magical means)? Are there places for such a person to stay?

Also while on the sakbe road there are places to stop and rest. Are these all outdoors or is it possible to stay in the towers as well?

Thanks,

H :0)

Oooo! Wonderful question!!!

If a high-status person was trying to get around on the quiet, the first thing would be to 'dress down', and wear clothes that were as lower a status as they could get away with, that didn't mark them as the lowest of the low. No flashy gems, nothing that savored of the rich; just a kilt and maybe a tunic at most. A cheap collar of plaques would help, and serviceable but lower-class footwear; that's always a dead give-away. You'd have to have your clan-glyph on the cheap collar, of course, as trying to pass yourself off as a different clan has all sorts of serious consequences.

Oh, and go out through the back gate of the clanhouse. That way, you'll be able to mingle with the trades people and be less obvious. Stay at a good, but cheaper guesthouse; stay out of the Foreigners' Quarter and the really cheap places. Pass yourself off as a poorer member of your clan, and don't flash any cash. You'll probably be mistaken for a noble person 'out on the town' 'slumming it' for some fun; it does happen.

Yes, to both. The platforms by the larger towers are for larger parties of the poorer travelers; more high-status or wealthier ones can 'book' rooms in the large towers for the night. One usually sends a servant ahead to let the gurds know one will be arriving, so they can get you a clean room. These larger towers are usually spaced about a day's march apart; the smaller ones, which are really more guard posts then anything else, don't have the room for guests. (Think of the layout of Hadrian's wall, for an idea of how this works; you have the mile towers and the little forts, which are about the same as the road towers.)

I very rarely stayed in any of the big towers; we just didn't do a lot of traveling by the Sakbe roads. The one big trip I had, when I went from Maku to Fasiltum to take up my post as a Deputy Governor, I hired a party of bearers from one of the transport clans as well as a Chlen cart for all the baggage. We spent all our nights under canvas - which is what the cart was for - and my bearers considered themselves to be very high class to have been engaged by such a noble young lord and his wonderful wife.

The female bearers did consider it to be a great scandal that Her Ladyship, Si N'te, did not have any handmaidens to serve her on the trip - I heard about it from them forever - and so the cart-driver's girlfriend was appointed as Her Ladyship's Maid for the trip. The senior-most of the female bearers appointed herself as Her Ladyship's major-domo, and appropriated my biggest tent (my military headquarters tent, actually) as The Womens' Tent. I never saw the inside of it the whole trip, unless Her Ladyship Was Receiving. I had my own sleeping tent, and the bearers all had tents as well - we travelled very 'posh', if you will.

We mere menfolk did what we were told, made camp as directed, and ate what we were offered. It was a grand trip...

(And yes, the whole caravan is sitting on the shelves in the game room, complete with cooking pots and firepits. It all makes for a very cosy set up on the game table, ripe for adventures and excitement!)