Then we're good.Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya
Then we're good.
Currently playing: WEG Star Wars D6
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
Gronan now owes me 7 beers and I owe him 1 beer.
Hmmm. Well, when we played with Phil, the 'in setting language' stuff was used as needed for things - Phil did not ram it down our throats while we were gaming. Normally, he didn't name creatures we encountered; he'd describe them to us, and then sit back and be amused while we madly thumbed through EPT in a panic trying to identify what was about to kill us this time. Once we'd figured out what it was, then he'd use the 'proper name' for the thing, and we were expected to remember it - it was part of our living in the world, and we'd know these things. Eventually, we all knew what a Thunru'u was, and we didn't need a translation. (We needed a mortar, usually.)
We did not use 'nicknames', as they are not common in Phil's conception of his Tekumel. We Vimuhla people would refer to the Ksarul people as 'squareheads', from their square-topped headdresses, and they'd return the favor by referring to us as 'matchheads', from our flame crests. This was only in 'table talk', amongst the players, and not amongst the player-characters.
The Custom of the House:
When the player-characters were taking to each other, and not the players, we'd be polite and use the appropriate term with each other. (You could always tell when the PC was talking, and when the player was talking.) When other people were around, I used 'Glorious General' to address the man; it really is one of his titles, from his getting the Imperial Gold of Glory and his promotion. It showed my respect for him to other officers and people, and was polite. He, in turn, addressed me as 'Staff Kasi', my title, when we were 'in public', for the same reasons. The only time when we addressed each other by our names, Chirine and Korunme, was when we were 'in private', usually in our quarters. If he was addressing me by my name in public, it was because he was making a pretty powerful statement to his line officers that he considered me a trusted confidante and friend, and that I spoke with his voice.
Kathy Marshall, Princess Vrisa Vishetru of Saa Alliqui, was always addressed 'in public' as 'Lady' or 'Princess'; only 'in private' did we use her name, again as a mark of our position in relation to her. Also again, we could use her name if and when she permitted it, again normally 'in private'; it was a mark of her favor and her trust in us as friends that we were invited to do so. I can think of at least two very-long-time players in the group who were not granted this favor; Vrisa simply didn't like them enough to allow them to use her name. Kathy got along with them just fine, but Vrisa didn't.
Other players were called by their titles or ranks as needed. Jean / Kialain was always 'Lady', as she was Sea Blue, or 'Priestess', as she was a Priestess in the Temple of Ksarul; Ken / Vidlakte was always 'Hereksa' or 'Commander', as he was the officer commanding our little section of doughty marines (he coud not be called 'captain', as that was Dave / Harchar's title); etc., etc.
We did this, starting very very early on, so that one could tell instantly that one was speaking to a PC, not a player. If you used a players's real name, and this included Phil, then the conversation was between the players and not the PCs. It made things a lot easier for all of us, and for Phil.
(There was one odd exception; Phil always called me 'Chirine', both in and out of game. "Chirine, when will you be done to mow the lawn this week?", and so on. Having said that, we always knew when he was talking to the guy at the end of the table, and when he was talking to the Priest of Lord Vimuhla; his voice would be different, in timbre and intonation. 'Me as player' was always at a slightly higher pitch and more rapid enunciation, and 'me as PC' was always pithced lower and more slowly - more formally, really.)
Clan names were never in Tsolyani; they were always in translation. Proper names, like the Tlakotani or the Vriddi, were the only 'in setting language' names for clans that I ever heard Phil use.
Formal place names tended to get used once, and then short versions after that introduction.
Does this help? Once again, I have to say that fluency in Tsolyani was not ever a part of our gaming with Phil. it amused him when we tried to learn, but it never figured in game play.
In our world where there are a lot of people with the same name, nicknames are not uncommon.
Just verifying if this was the case in Tekumel.
In My Opinion, quite the disservice was done by those who insisted difficult/unfamiliar words be required to play "correctly".
People seem to prefer the familiar no matter how much they may claim otherwise. So, the more things that are unfamiliar, the harder it is to get people to engage.
=
Yes, I'd agree with that, especially in our Western culture. Phil was always trying to remind us that we were in a very different culture when we played in his Tekumel.
Agreed. The moment I heard about the language lectures being done at conventions by some of the well-known proponents of Tekumel, I knew we were in trouble. And sure enough, I started seeing on-line complaints from people who had been rolling right along in a very fun game set in Tekumel (both in RPGs and LARPs) at conventions; the game had come to a dead stop when somebody started correcting a player's pronunciation. Killed the game right there, they were saying.
Again, I'd agree. One of the things I do in my games that always lands me in hot water with the people who do this kind of 'language camp' approach is I tell new players not to worry about pronunciation - they'll pick it up as they play. I also tell them not to be too worried by the fine details, either; they'll pick it up. The important thing is to get them started playing; I keep 'char-gen' to a bare minimum, for example. There's a certain amount of sputtering and pearl-clutching that goes on over this, and I keep having to point out that we developed our characters by playing them, and not simply by rolling them. There was none of the 'one bad roll ruined my character'; when I rolled Chirine up in 1976, I got a 'charisma' of 12 on d100, on a scale of 1-100. I dealt with it, and his looks became a plot point for both Phil and I.
Sigh.
And no, Glorious General, I haven't forgotten your posts; I'm trying to make my replies sound coherent...
Pronunciation is a tricky thing.
It's nice if names are pronounced correctly. Yet, people vary in how good they are at doing that. And it gets more difficult if the player isn't fluent in the language. So as the GM I try to pretend that the name was pronounced correctly by the player and I'll use the correct pronunciation myself, which I suppose could be perceived as correcting.
On the other hand, some mispronunciations really grate on the ear. The player in AD&D who continually mispronounced Ogre Magi as or-gee ma-gai could use some correction - though Gronan would probably appreciate the humor.
Proper names and titles and pronunciation is something we struggle with in Honor+Intrigue. There are a lot of NPCs, some have multiple praenomens (birth, baptismal, confirmation), a family name, and for nobles one or more title names. They might even have a nickname or by-name on top of all that.
Sounds like Chirine was lucky to live in Tekumal where nicknames are less popular than in Western Culture. He might not have liked what the kids at school called him.
Last edited by Bren; 09-22-2015 at 10:37 AM.
Currently playing: WEG Star Wars D6
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
Gronan now owes me 7 beers and I owe him 1 beer.
Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster here.
I'm planning to run my own Tékumel soon, and this thread has been a wonderful read. I apologize in advance for my english, non-native and right now a bit drunk
Chirine, Gronan and anyone who have experience with EPT, how common was to encounter non-humans in Tékumel? Was it common to have non-human player characters, or was it more usual to have them as retainers/henchmen?
Well if it was really funny, which would depend on delivery.
Gary often called ogres "ogrees". He also often called rogues "rogwees". We always called werewolves "waswolves." Well, not always, but often.
I don't care if you respect me, just buy my fucking book.
Formerly known as Old Geezer
I don't need an Ignore List, I need a Tongue My Pee Hole list.
The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole.
Yes, I'd agree with all of your very good points - and I like the very nice way you handle it. I do the same; lead by example.
Chirine never got hassled at the temple academy; the 'back story' is that he took a blunt-force blow to the face while he was with the troops putting down the slave revolt that Gary Rudolph got started in Ferenara when Gary was the fief-holder. The Custom of the House with Phil was that if you didn't get to a healing spell within 24 hours of the injury, you were stuck with it; Chirine wasn't able to get to help soon enough - he was too busy - and so has a nose that's more then a little bashed in.
When Kathy Marshall did his picture, she based him on an Italian mercenary with a similarly bashed-in look.
Welcome aboard!Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster here.
I'm planning to run my own Tékumel soon, and this thread has been a wonderful read. I apologize in advance for my english, non-native and right now a bit drunk
Chirine, Gronan and anyone who have experience with EPT, how common was to encounter non-humans in Tékumel? Was it common to have non-human player characters, or was it more usual to have them as retainers/henchmen?
The 'friendly' non-humans are very common in human cities; the hostile ones you have to seek out in the more desolate parts of the world, or in the Underworlds. They are fun to have around, especially with a good GM or player. Most groups of players tend to be human, so you see a lot of non-humans as the 'hired help' and employees.
In Phil's campaign, I can only think of three: Dave Romm played a Tinaliya (to great effect!), Victor Raymond a Pe Choi, and Joe Zottola a Shen. In my oen group, I do have a Pe Choi player, and my tour group that was in on Sunday has a Pe Choi player and a Chima player.
Generally, I advise that anyone wanting to play a non-human have no small amount of acting ability and do all the research that they can on their subject. It just seems to work better, that way.
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