Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Another thing I've noticed... whole bunches of people, at least on line, have all the sense of humor of a bent bicycle wheel. Now, this might be the "Bandar-Log" factor. But instead of saying "Boy, I sometimes get tired of the dumb jokes Gary put in the DMG," you get pages of pages of "OH THIS IS SO AWFUL AND IT BREAKS MY IMMERSION AND IT'S HORRIBLE AND HE IS A BAD MAN FOR PUTTING IN JOKES."

Now, arguments over the appropriateness of humor in wargames goes back for decades at least; for every army commanded by "Sir Hugh Jarce," you had somebody else kyoodling about how that was "silly" and "frivolous." To which the usual response was, "Yes it is," and then beat the living hell out of the guy who objected to the funny name. (I have a WW1 German pilot named Billy Pilsner, and a WW2 German pilot named Hermann Thudpuckre.)

But the roaring and shrieking of those who think humor "breaks immersion" seems to have gotten much louder over the years. I don't know if they've increased in number or merely volume.

As I've said many times, "If Gary had known that 35 years later people would still be getting their peeners in knots over his dumb jokes, he would have put even more of them in!"

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Somewhere back a while ago, Chirine was wondering how I thought things had changed since the early 80s. - snipped for now... -

I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days, and i'll have a longer reply tomorrow - it's been a long weekend, with back to back football games at work and a tour group in tonight after work.

Hold this thought; I'll be back at it after I get Second Daughter home and some sleep...

Originally Posted by AsenRG

No, I understood that. What I wasn't sure is who was made to clean what.

Oh! Sorry!

I had been installing a door lock and knob in the office door for the Tekumel Foundation, after about a month of them trying to make a decision on what kind of door knob they wanted. I got the thing for them, and came into to the office to install the thing and found that one of the Directors had salvaged a different door, and that they wanted me to use that one. Never mind that all the holes for the hardware and the rebates for the hinges were now in the wrong place; I was told to shut up and get on with the job for them.

(Directors do not do manual labor; that's "a problem for the staff.")

When I collapsed, I had had power and hand tools all over the place as I was doing the install, and I persuaded the wife and daughter to clean up the sawdust, wood shavings, and tools and take them with us. They did, so we left the place a lot cleaner then we found it; they even cleaned up all the debris from the paramedics.

Sorry about the lack of clarity!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I think it mattered mostly to Phil. Remember, he spent something like 40 years building Tekumel as a world BEFORE I introduced him to D&D. It was obviously something he loved doing, and I think it also gave him satisfaction as a game master to know that wherever we went, he knew what was going on. In my fantasy games there are always huge areas I haven't made up anything for and I think most are like that. But Phil built Tekumel first, THEN played in it.

It's part of what makes Middle Earth so engrossing. All throughout The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, the kindly old Professor gives us glimpses of the First and Second Ages. "Deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us, but they are gone."

It's one of the things the movies did actually manage in a few places, like the overgrown pillars and tumbled down statues in Lothlorien; those visual touches gave the feeling of great, great age.

Oh, agreed! Phil took his world very seriously, and loved to work up all the little details. That was part of the fun for me personally, documenting it all.

He just never seemed to let the details get in the way of the adventure. His word-pictures were wonderful!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Fortunately, you smell better than most. Also, you seem to have managed the spell that allows you to eat human food (saw him snarf a chicken cutlet sammich with my own baby blue eyes, folks) unlike that story by... Clark Ashton Smith, was it... the undead lich drank blood but couldn't digest it, so just got more and more bloated with clotted, rotting blood until the venal last priest grabbed a silver paper knife and stabbed it and it burst and all the reeking, clotted mess spilled out...

Chirine's First Law: Bathe.

There are two more laws, but they simply amplify that first one.

Burp. Just finished some nice roast chicken; the tour was had very nice people, and I got to do a pretty big show-and-tell. Great fun, and a good time was had by all.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

They're out there, but recruiting from players of later editions can be very frustrating all around. Non gamers are often the most fun to game with.

Agreed; I've had the same experience.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Another thing I've noticed... whole bunches of people, at least on line, have all the sense of humor of a bent bicycle wheel. Now, this might be the "Bandar-Log" factor. But instead of saying "Boy, I sometimes get tired of the dumb jokes Gary put in the DMG," you get pages of pages of "OH THIS IS SO AWFUL AND IT BREAKS MY IMMERSION AND IT'S HORRIBLE AND HE IS A BAD MAN FOR PUTTING IN JOKES."

Now, arguments over the appropriateness of humor in wargames goes back for decades at least; for every army commanded by "Sir Hugh Jarce," you had somebody else kyoodling about how that was "silly" and "frivolous." To which the usual response was, "Yes it is," and then beat the living hell out of the guy who objected to the funny name. (I have a WW1 German pilot named Billy Pilsner, and a WW2 German pilot named Hermann Thudpuckre.)

But the roaring and shrieking of those who think humor "breaks immersion" seems to have gotten much louder over the years. I don't know if they've increased in number or merely volume.

As I've said many times, "If Gary had known that 35 years later people would still be getting their peeners in knots over his dumb jokes, he would have put even more of them in!"

Yep. More on this later, as well...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Now, arguments over the appropriateness of humor in wargames goes back for decades at least; for every army commanded by "Sir Hugh Jarce," you had somebody else kyoodling about how that was "silly" and "frivolous." To which the usual response was, "Yes it is," and then beat the living hell out of the guy who objected to the funny name.

That is way too hardcore war gaming for me. I almost always draw the line well before that. Except maybe for * below.

But the roaring and shrieking of those who think humor "breaks immersion" seems to have gotten much louder over the years.

Depends on two things.

1) Was it even funny? The 99th time that someone does the exact same Monty Python quote? Just not as funny. Now if it is something that is actually funny and it is something your character actually said in game. Then welcome to the table!

2) How much is it distracting from play? I invited you (generic you) to come play a character. Ending up hosting an amateur stand up comedy night might just make me rethink that separation between what I do to your character and what I'm going to do to you. *

A good friend of mine likes comic character names. The difference between Bob and 99% of the folks who try to do that is that he is actually clever about the names he comes up with.

A dwarf named Ferrik Oxhide. In Glorantha. Where an Iron Dwarf is an actual thing.

Someone who wants to name their character Biggus Dickus. And we aren't even in Rome or playing Romans. Because we are playing the Three Musketeers or Boot Hill. Fuck that guy.

Originally Posted by Bren

That is way too hardcore war gaming for me. I almost always draw the line well before that. Except maybe for * below.

Depends on two things.

1) Was it even funny? The 99th time that someone does the exact same Monty Python quote? Just not as funny. Now if it is something that is actually funny and it is something your character actually said in game. Then welcome to the table!

2) How much is it distracting from play? I invited you (generic you) to come play a character. Ending up hosting an amateur stand up comedy night might just make me rethink that separation between what I do to your character and what I'm going to do to you. *

A good friend of mine likes comic character names. The difference between Bob and 99% of the folks who try to do that is that he is actually clever about the names he comes up with.

A dwarf named Ferrik Oxhide. In Glorantha. Where an Iron Dwarf is an actual thing.

Someone who wants to name their character Biggus Dickus. And we aren't even in Rome or playing Romans. Because we are playing the Three Musketeers or Boot Hill. Fuck that guy.

Context, once again, is everything.

Playing PENDRAGON, I would not name my character "Sir Loin of Beef."

Playing D&D, I would, in view of the fact that the creators of the game and their groups had characters like Funk I, King of the Orcs, Swenny the Great, the Wizard Gaylord, Sir Fang the Vampire, Yrag, Xagyg, Bombadil, Drawmij, Otto, Bigby, Digby, Rigby, Sigby... hell, some little pissant even named his character "Gronan of Simmerya."

Careful management of expectations is the key to success. If you don't want dumb character names, tell your players "no dumb character names."

Et cetera.