Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by NathanIW

If someone wanted to get into Tekumel, perhaps just to read for interest, or to use as a setting for a game, or to borrow from and be inspired by for a game, where would you advise they start?

This thread has been fascinating for me.

Ah! Well, here's my thoughts on the subject:

Get a copy of the 1976 EPT. It's Phil's earliest try at an RPG game, and the one least encumbered by later additions and expectations. There's lots of tidbits that will provide lots of fun, and it's pretty easy to play the thing. DriveThruRPG, I think.

If you like popcorn, get a big pile of it and fire up the big screen. I would like to suggest some movies that Phil liked a lot; some are old and obscure, and some relatively new:

"Thief of Baghdad" - both the 1927 and 1940 versions. Phil told me that he'd seen both when they were in the theaters, and had loved them a lot. Quitea few of the costumes in the 1927 silent (with Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., hurrah!) show up in Phil's drawings - see the Legion of Mirikitani, Hero of Victories, defeat the Mongol Horde! And that gate - must have!!! The later color version is pure Phil at his best - the Temple of the All-Seeing Eye gave it's name to a later Tekumel fanzine. What's not to like? Giant killer spiders, snarky genies, and magical stuff lying all over the place. The actress playing the Princess is the model for Princess Ma'in hi Tlakotani.

"Sign of the Cross" (1932) - Cecil B. DeMille's epic potboiler of Roman times, and where Phil said he got his inspiration for political intrigue and court politics. Me, I think he loved it for Miss Claudette Colbert in the milk bath, myself.

"Cleopatra" (1934) - DeMille and Colbert are back, in yet another epic; Phil was hugely amused at the historical inaccuracies, but loved the look of the film. Miss Colbert is the model for Queen Nayari of the Silken Thighs, by the way, and you'll see why in this movie.

"Sinbad the Sailor" (1947); "The 7th Voyage of Sinbad" (1958); "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" (1973); "Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger" (1977) - You might want to see these in reverse chronological order, but that's just me; I think the 1947 one is the best, but the later three all feature some of Ray Harryhousen's best work, all of which Phil used on us at various times. (Animated statues - did I mention just how much I hate animated statues?)

When you need to take a break from the big screen, have a read through the Barsoom series by Edgar Rice Burroughs. One of the most poignant things I ever did was hold Phil's well-read and immaculate first edition copy of "A Princess of Mars" that his parents had give him on his eighth birthday. The recent movies might not go amiss too; he vener had the chance to see it; he died the morning my Missus and I were going out to the theater to see it, and things got a little busy. I think he would have loved it, though; all his dreams come to life...

Phil's own novels are not for the casual reader, I think. He's got a very dry writing style, and some of his protagonists are really dull and boring people. I do suggest reading them, though, for all the detail he throws in. The first one is available, but you'll have to hunt for the others.

Does this help? I can go on for pages, but this is the cream of the crop...

Originally Posted by NathanIW

I know you've talked a bit about miniatures. My own preference has slowly shifted towards 54mm. Whether it's plastic, home cast or traditional toy soldiers. I got sucked into Napoleonics and at 54mm getting two armies painted and done is going to take a long time unless I really crank the figure ratio:

Spoiler:

Do you primarily deal with 25mm metals?

In my games, yes; I started out 'gaming' with 54mm / 1/32 scale figures and vehicles in the early 1970s, which was not a thing for the faint-hearted; you needed a huge room, like a gym or a community center to play in. Scenery was a nightmare, as it was all 1/72 or 1/87 scale. When I discovered Roco Mini-tanks and Airfix figures, life and games got very, very good.

As I think I've mentioned, I don;t think of myself as a 'gamer'; I think of myself as a model builder, and my games are a way to amaze and delight people with my skills. I am told that I do run amazing games, but you'll have to ask the players why - I just build the stuff, as you can see from the photos and videos you can link to vis my signature's links.

I discovered 25mm - now 28mm - figures in the middle to lat 1970s, when they first started coming out. I have, according to my log books, built and painted a little over 64,000 miniatures of all sorts; I currently have about 5,500 figures in my collection, which is way down from my former total of some 32,000 figures. I learned the hard way that to have games that started on time, I had to provide everything - both sides, scenery, terrain, rulers, and rules. Otherwise, you'd sit around the table waiting for hours for the guy who was bringing one army, who'd forgotten to show up...

I was originally introduced to Phil as a painter, and that's how I got involved with Tekumel. Phil needed somebody to paint, and that's what I do. He would hand me a hundred figures, give me a week or two to get them done, and then select the fifty he liked and which he'd keep; I'd get the rest as my 'fee', which is how my Tekumel miniatures collection got started.

'The Custom of the House', in first our original Thursday Night Group and later on in all my campaigns for the next thirty years, was that all of the PCs were represented by figures, on the table for marching orders and fights. We also did big battles, where our leaden alter-egos were the command figures for our troops.

I just love the way a good table looks; see also the photos! I'm especially proud of the urban, ship, and night games; these are hard to stage, but a lot of fun to play.

Loved your cavalry!!!

Thanks! I put a bunch of those at the top of the list for next movies to watch.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

To quote Asterix and Cleopatra,

"Boom! Zing! Tantantara!"

Please see the attached - I hope that this works!

Phil dod this as a miniature, with a statue of the god Horus on the palanquin.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Apologies, I certainly didn't intend to depress you.

Here's something that may make you smile... did you know John McEwan is STILL selling Starguard rules and figures?

For that matter, Lou Zocchi is STILL bringing the gypsy caravan to GenCon.

I hope they live to be a thousand.

Oh, hurrah! I wonder what Perfect Mikey did with all my Starguard figures when he went to Chicago?

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Religions and temples tend to be hierarchical best I can tell.

How does/did player characters that were "Priests" interact with the temples?
Were they assumed to be "farmed out to the clan"?
More travelling monk than priest?

Did the temple hierarchy effect the ability to "adventure" beside maybe giving reasons to do so?
=

Yep. You have it. We didn't do a lot with our temples; as long as we sent in our contributions on time, we got our stipends on time. We got a number of heavy-handed hints over the years that we really needed to stay out of the 'priestly business' and stay in 'the adventurer business'. So we did; much less paperwork, that way, and lots and lots of adventures. The temples would find useful things that we could do for them, and keep us supplied; we, in turn, went out and did stuff.

Originally Posted by NathanIW

Thanks! I put a bunch of those at the top of the list for next movies to watch.

Well, have fun, and let us know how you get on!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I was just reminded by the guy's obsession with Dave's shirt by some of the marital arts people we used to know, who were always asking Gronan what the secret of his success was. H would reply, "Practice for a couple of hours each day for a year", and they would be very upset as it wasn;t the answer they were looking for. "No! No!" they would cry, "Teach me your Secret Blow that stops my opponents in their tracks!!!" Gronan would look baffled, and try again. It never worked, sad to say.

The idea of the naive neophyte in search of the one secret, unstoppable blow has a long, long history. This is just one of the more recent incarnations.

Paid for in coin, no doubt a few lessons, properly learnt and applied, would suffice. After all, he only needed an unstoppable flurry of two or three clever thrusts to kill his man, didn't he?

Almades frequently asked himself, when faced with students like this, if these young men truly believed in the existence of such "deadly thrusts" which, once their secrets were mastered, were capable of guaranteeing success without any need for fencing talent. And even if there were such a thing, did they imagine this mysterious knowledge could be had for a mere fistful of pistoles? But it was highly likely that this student, terrified by the prospect of risking his life, sword in hand, would want to believe it to be true.

Just read this recently in Pierre Pevel's book, The Cardinal's Blades.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

In my games, yes; I started out 'gaming' with 54mm / 1/32 scale figures and vehicles in the early 1970s, which was not a thing for the faint-hearted; you needed a huge room, like a gym or a community center to play in.

Every month some friends and I rent a multipurpose room in an apartment building. It's got loads of collapsible tables.

I have to scratch build all my own 1/32 scenery. I also do Sumerians in 1/72 and terrain for that can be very easy. I also do Roman skirmishes near Dura-Europos in the 3rd century and that's in 28mm. And then I do WW2 eastern front in 15mm. So I'm always thinking of ways I can make terrain that can function in multiple scales and places.

I discovered 25mm - now 28mm - figures in the middle to lat 1970s, when they first started coming out. I have, according to my log books, built and painted a little over 64,000 miniatures of all sorts; I currently have about 5,500 figures in my collection, which is way down from my former total of some 32,000 figures.

That's a large collection. People often wonder why I'm into miniatures given that I'm not, at all, a collector. If a year goes by and I don't use something I sell it or otherwise get rid of it. For miniatures I find that my painted figures easily cover all my new purchases. I regularly play with my Napoleonics, Romans/Sassanids, WW2 soviets/Germans so they've never gone.

Another silly thing I do is build scratch built star trek ships out of buttons and bingo chips and other scavenged things:

Spoiler:

Terrain is really easy

I learned the hard way that to have games that started on time, I had to provide everything - both sides, scenery, terrain, rulers, and rules. Otherwise, you'd sit around the table waiting for hours for the guy who was bringing one army, who'd forgotten to show up...

I too always make both sides and all the terrain and figure out the rules and then just host games or run them at events. I know lots and lots of people really like these commercial miniature gaming systems where they build one army and then rely on other local people (often who they haven't even met yet but just assume are out there) to build one and then use the rules supplied by the manufacturer but I always thought it was very strange to make whether or not a game happens contingent on someone else. Or choose to miss out on painting something you like because you're worried no one else will supply the opposing force.

Loved your cavalry!!!

Thanks. As you can see I like to block paint the main colours and then do black lines to add contrast. It's fast and I really enjoy finishing figures and always having something different on the painting table.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I was originally introduced to Phil as a painter, and that's how I got involved with Tekumel. Phil needed somebody to paint, and that's what I do. He would hand me a hundred figures, give me a week or two to get them done, and then select the fifty he liked and which he'd keep; I'd get the rest as my 'fee', which is how my Tekumel miniatures collection got started.

Wow! What a sweet deal...for Phil. I've never had the time or energy to paint all my minis. I'd love to know someone who would do that.

'The Custom of the House', in first our original Thursday Night Group and later on in all my campaigns for the next thirty years, was that all of the PCs were represented by figures, on the table for marching orders and fights. We also did big battles, where our leaden alter-egos were the command figures for our troops.

I much prefer that myself. It's hard sometimes to do in Call of Cthulhu as my collection is ~ 120 figures for that period. Impossible for 1620s Europe as I have no collection for that period. Pretty easy to do for Star Wars where I have a pretty good size collection (~ 250 figures) and where I spent some effort to get figures that exactly matched the three major PCs in our game. Custom building the Coynite complete with uncut hair was the most actual modeling work. And even easier for fantasy RPGs which has the bulk of my figures. Not sure quite how many of those there are maybe 400 painted, about that many unpainted, and about that many unpainted Airfix-like plastic figures. Nothing like the enormity of your collection. Clearly yours is bigger.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Please see the attached - I hope that this works!

TANTANTARA!!! (It worked.)