Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Chirine,

Could you please talk a bit about the secret societies of the different Temples? How much in actuality are people used by these groups to further the ends of that particular group? Is there a particular group more abhored than most? Which group is the most powerful? How does one know they are actually talking with/to a particular group? Or is it ever known?

Thanks,

H :0)

No, they're secret.

Sorry; it's a very old joke! Anyway...

Each of the temples - and for all I know, any of the social entities in the Five Empires - have factions that seek to promote one or another agenda. Some are very public, and some try very hard to stay as covert as possible. Some have a lot of followers and power, and some do not.

I am a card-carrying, dues-paying, member-in-good-standing follower of the Incandescent Blaze Society of the Temple of Vimuhla; we are devoted to the restoration of the world-dominating theocracy of the Temple that existed under the Dragon Lords. We have members in all the Flame-worshipping clans, and also in all of the Legions devoted to Lord Vimuhla. We are A Power Upon The Land, as we'll me more then happy to explain to you - some of our more fanatic members are really boring at parties, I should warn you. We're out to expand our role in society and government, and to increase the power of the Temple. (And get a few nice perks along the way, if possible. It's good to be the High Priest, assuming that that Chirine guy doesn't kill you out of hand for dipping into the Temple's till...)

And like any properly organized secret society, we have our conventions, conferences, seminars, management retreats, annual meetings, reunions, hospitality suites, social events, team-building exercises, and out-and-out junkets to the better guesthouses. Occasionally, we'll throw a war or two to keep in practice, but that's all part of the fun.

I can hear you ask "But, how does that work in society?"

We take the very long view. It may take generations to reestablish our supremacy, but we'll get there - eventually. In the mean time, we have adventures, wars, expeditions, and such-like to keep us busy.

These sorts of societies are part of the fabric of political life, and are very common. None are looked down on, except by their opponents. It's usually a matter of pride that one is in a secret society, and there's a lot of name-dropping and wearing of the particular society's unique glyph. Generally, unless the member of the society is on the business of the group, and needs to be discreet, it's pretty obvious what they belong to, and the societies are usually pretty up-front with each other in their dealings.

For example, my First Concubine / second wife (a very nice and pleasant lady) is a priestess of the Temple of Ksarul, and a member of (I think; I really don't ask, 'cause it's supposed to be a secret) the Refulgent Blue Light Society. Our two secret societies are directly opposed to each other, but as in all things Tsolyani a certain practicality prevails; I do reports on her nefarious activities, and she does reports on mine. We each get a small stipend and our expenses for all this skullduggery and intrigue, which is nice as it helps with the costs of having a large family. We always make sure that each of our secret societies get something out of our adventures, too, as it keeps everybody happy.

More? Less? What else can I tell you? Phil covered this pretty extensively in the Sourcebook, as I recall...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

It's usually a matter of pride that one is in a secret society, and there's a lot of name-dropping and wearing of the particular society's unique glyph.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I wish there was a way to get this word to a wider audience.
I think that it is one of the most off putting aspects of playing in the setting and is being pushed at just about every site that features Tekumel.
While it may be "fun" for a small group of people, I think it stops a larger group from even trying.
Maybe that is the point?
A way to keep the riff-raff out?
=

Well, I do agree with you.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of elitism going on with Tekumel, and a lot of posturing and positioning going on to try and convince other people that The True Fans are a chosen band of highly intellectual and artistically superior gamers who are head and shoulders above the hoi polloi and peasants who play such 'common' games as D&D and Pathfinder.

I am a populist, not an elitist, and I've been getting crap from these people for years. My book, for example, is regarded as A Bad Thing, because I am aiming it at people like you, and not writing it for people like them.

Yes, they do put people off playing Tekumel; if I had a dollar for every gamer who has told me that "I wish I'd met you before I found Tekumel fandom!" or "You make Tekumel sound fun!" over the past thirty-five years, I'd have been able to retire to a life of luxury and ease twenty years ago.

I can remember, with incredulity, the announcements that there would be language seminars at conventions so people could learn 'proper' Tsolyani, and how this was vitally important for people as they could not even think about playing the setting until they had been 'properly indoctrinated' with The One True Way; this attitude what has made Tekumel the huge commercial success that it has been for decades.

Yes, it does kill interest in the setting. Ask The Pundit; he's got an interesting take on this.

The only way that this will ever change is for people like you to go out and play in the setting, and have fun doing it. And tell your friends about it.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Jargon is very useful, but it's also a very good way to erect a barrier to entry. This applies to just about any venue that uses jargon.

In some 10 or so years of weekly playing in Tekumel, NOBODY, including Phil, ever spoke even a single word of Tsolyani.

Once again, the combination of Phil's own background as a linguistic scholar and the Villainous Influences of the "RP is a NARTFORM" crowd ended up in projecting a very untrue image.

Heretic dog!!! How dare you question The One True Way??? You shall burn in hell for this for all eternity!!!

And you're right, of course...

Originally Posted by The_Shadow

Except for proper nouns, I guess? Surely he'd at least say something like "your trip on the sakbe road is uneventful except for getting stuck behind some lumbering chlen..."

No language, just vocabulary, like all the Urdu, Hindi, Pashtun, Farsi, and Arabic curses we learned the night Phil accidently set his chest hair on fire at the game table.

Originally Posted by Bren

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Ssshh! It's a secret.

And I might note that all the secret police in the Five Empires have the fanciest and most elaborate uniforms, too...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I can remember, with incredulity, the announcements that there would be language seminars at conventions so people could learn 'proper' Tsolyani, and how this was vitally important for people...

This reminds me of a Friends of Darkover meeting that a buddy of mine dragged me to back in the early eighties. Those folks would have loved language seminars. They all had Darkover names and came across to me as a very odd bunch. Which, considering I'd been playing RPGs for maybe a decade, and had been to Sci-Fi cons and SCA events is kind of saying something. Not as weird as the Amway meeting I got suckered into later though.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Ssshh! It's a secret.

And I might note that all the secret police in the Five Empires have the fanciest and most elaborate uniforms, too...

Makes arresting people once you've caught them much easier since you are obviously official. Might make catching them harder....kind of a win/win I'd say.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

No language, just vocabulary, like all the Urdu, Hindi, Pashtun, Farsi, and Arabic curses we learned the night Phil accidently set his chest hair on fire at the game table.

The coal dropped off his nasty little cigar into his amazingly lush, if grey, chest hairs, and a good time was had by all except him.

He was an excellent scholar and very learned, but dressed like a homeless person at his game table. Rattiest damn T shirt I ever saw.

Originally Posted by Bren

This reminds me of a Friends of Darkover meeting that a buddy of mine dragged me to back in the early eighties. Those folks would have loved language seminars. They all had Darkover names and came across to me as a very odd bunch. Which, considering I'd been playing RPGs for maybe a decade, and had been to Sci-Fi cons and SCA events is kind of saying something. Not as weird as the Amway meeting I got suckered into later though.

Yep. Been there, done that, ran like hell.