Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

It's really hard to describe that era.

Well I was there. I just never found RPGs as any kind of a monetary temptation.

D&D just fucking exploded. At Origins in 76 the D&D tournament had 250 people...

But I wasn't there. I don't think I went to a single gaming Con until the mid 1990s and I've never gone to any of the big Cons.

It's the same phenomenon you see in fantasy & sf books... "Hell, ** I ** can do better than THIS piece of shit, and it got published!"

Well sure I can write better than some published authors. But I don't want to do the work that it would take for me to actually write a book. And I'm OK with that.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

It's really hard to describe that era. D&D just fucking exploded. At Origins in 76 the D&D tournament had 250 people, and that was just the beginning of the phenomenon; over the next five years it only got bigger.

It's the same phenomenon you see in fantasy & sf books... "Hell, ** I ** can do better than THIS piece of shit, and it got published!"

I'd agree with all of the above. The money was a very big factor in the explosive expansion of the market, and what kinds of stuff companies would sell. Some guys got it right, and some didn't.

And there was a huge amount of "If those two losers can do a game that sells, then we can do better because we're smarter then they are", both from gamers and from game company owners and authors.

Neither Gary or Dave were all that respected at the time; I don't think it was until they were safely dead that they got the kind of 'professional' recognition that they deserved. Just my opinion, of course...

Heck, I got out of historical gaming because of the crap like this that the two of them took from their 'peers' in the hobby and in the industry - Baltimore Origins back about 1980 was enough for me...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I'd agree with all of the above. The money was a very big factor in the explosive expansion of the market, and what kinds of stuff companies would sell. Some guys got it right, and some didn't.

And there was a huge amount of "If those two losers can do a game that sells, then we can do better because we're smarter then they are", both from gamers and from game company owners and authors.

Neither Gary or Dave were all that respected at the time; I don't think it was until they were safely dead that they got the kind of 'professional' recognition that they deserved. Just my opinion, of course...

Heck, I got out of historical gaming because of the crap like this that the two of them took from their 'peers' in the hobby and in the industry - Baltimore Origins back about 1980 was enough for me...

Much like the thread in this site about people being embarrassed about D&D, I think a lot of wargamers back then were embarrassed that RPGs were getting all the press.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Much like the thread in this site about people being embarrassed about D&D, I think a lot of wargamers back then were embarrassed that RPGs were getting all the press.

Oh, yes; very much so! Remember the historicals guys having fits over being described as men playing with little toy soldiers, and their agonized "NO! NO! We are doing Serious Historical Simulation and Vitally Important Research!!!" when they could get anyone's attention?

I have to admit that when I started hearing about The Serious Artform of RPGs, it seemed like history was repeating itself...

Deja Vu all over again.

Heck, it wasn't until the 1980s that model railroaders stopped being embarrassed... you've read some of the old MRs from the 40s and 50s, haven't you?

Yeah, I'm a grown man playing with toy trains. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Deja Vu all over again.

Heck, it wasn't until the 1980s that model railroaders stopped being embarrassed... you've read some of the old MRs from the 40s and 50s, haven't you?

Yeah, I'm a grown man playing with toy trains. Deal with it.

Yep. Somethings never seem to change, do they?

Yeah, the old MRs are pretty funny to read now, but also pretty sad with the logical gymnastics needed to 'justify' the hobby.

Its odd that sports fans so seldom seem to feel the same need to justify their hobby.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I suspect that there is a lack of toiletries most everywhere so, besides the rich and their personal butt wipers, is the left hand used?
Are there issues with gesturing with the left hand? Using it for other things?

Are bunk beds common? What about sharing a bed?

Is gambling pervasive? Public drunkenness ignored or embarrassing?

I assume that things given at shrines and temples are used by the priesthood?
Taking the offerings isn't acceptable but with mostly disengaged deities, is it enforced by the common people or just the priesthood?
Are offerings intentionally things the priests can use or mostly things specifically for the deity only?

Unless you intentionally draw attention to yourself, do people in a crowd ignore each other?
=

OOOooo!!! More great questions!!! Thank you!

Yes; as a result, the left hand is never used for eating or 'polite' purposes. We do have soap, hot water, and that kind of thing, but shampoo and conditioner are unknown.

Generally, using the left hand in ordinary polite society is frowned on; there are no restrictions in practical use, such as working or fighting.

I've never heard of bunk beds; with Phil, it was normally a sleeping mat on the floor or on a sleeping platform. Sailors use hammocks, or berths in cabins with storage below. This seems to be pretty common all over the Five Empires, and in most places beyond. One interesting exception is in Nlyssa, where the Nlyss favor large raised beds - a clan / warband chief and most of his immediate family will sleep in it, under piles of furs; mostly to stay warm in the high mountains, I think. Oh - another one is in M'morcha, where the locals all favor raised bedsteads or platforms for sleeping; puff spiders, for which the place is (in)famous, can't climb vertical surfaces, so everybody sleeps up off the floor.

Sharing beds is pretty common; it's more likely the lower you go in the social strata. It's one way to keep track of the kids, for example. Higher-status and wealthier clans have more individual and separate quarters; kids in their teens are usually housed in what amounts to dormitories, with results familiar to anyone who's lived in a college dorm room. A wise visitor makes sure to slip the major-domo a little consideration in order to get a guest room as far away from the teen-agers' quarters as possible...

Gambling is very common in the Five Empires, and is a feature of most feasts and parties.( I made Phil a set of Kevuk dice, ages ago...) Betting is very popular in most circles, from what I've seen.

Public drunkeness is not all that common; one does almost all one's drinking in polite company in one's own or friends' clanhouses, if one has any status or pretensions to same. You do get a lot of very patient servants carrying the drunks home in their palanquins after parties, of course. Lower-status people usually 'stay in' when they drink, mostly because it's just a little too risky to go out while incapacitated.

Socially, it's usually ignored, unless the drunk gets annoying and starts a fight or something.

Yes, generally offerings are 'in kind' or in cash, both of which can be used by the temple. Cash usually goes into the temple accounts, while food and such goes to the kitchens after the ceremonies are over. Nothing goes to waste.

I'd saw, from my time with Phil, that offerings are not 'enforced'; they are a tradition and custom, which everyone follows. I usually offer something at my temple, but I also makes sure to give a little something at the Temple of Avanthe, just in case I need to get stitched up after a battle. 'Demanding' donations would be considered very low-class, if not outright unsociable, and a priest or priestess trying this on would soon find themselves transferred to a much nice temple for a very long time. It's just 'not done'.

Some items are deity-specific, like weapons at the Temple of Vimuhla or eels at he Temple of Dlamelish; She also prefers silver coins, while the Temple of Sarku prefers copper ones; Karakan likes gold ones, 'cause they go with the decor (red and gold, mostly).

Generally, people leave other people to their business; one would always politely greet somebody you know, and if you have any connections you'd pass the time of day for a few moments discussing your clans and families. Higher-class / status people tend to have a lot less to do with lower class / status people, and vice versa. There isn't a lot of social mixing that goes on, especially out in public. Ignoring somebody, of any status, is considered a bit rude; a polite nod or smile for people, and a bow or salute, depending on relative status and rank, is considered polite.

Does this help?