Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Bren

I either didn't know that about the clan name or I forgot it. That's the kind of setting element I really like.

Cool! When you've been doing Tekumel as long as I have, it comes pretty naturally - which may be why Phil once said "Chirine, you've got native." Which is a pretty nice compliment, I thought, and may be an example of 'immersion'...

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Immeasurable help. Also timely.
I assume that word would spread through the "grapevine" of urchins and that would be how their Cousin would hear of it?

Would such a slaving attempt be blatant or when they were "led astray"?

I assume "diving equipment" would be jealously guarded by the clans that had it.
=

Happy to help!

Yep, Cousin Woofel would hear about this pretty quickly, tip the helpful urchin(s) - who would then scamper off to set up the betting on what would happen next - and call out the clan and their allies to effect a rescue. Player-characters would be hired as 'muscle', officials would be bribed, and life on the Jakalla waterfront would carry on more or less as usual.

Depends on how gullible the fishermen seem to be. Quieter is usually better, but I don't how discreet this guy is.

Oh, yes; it's be a very closely-guarded secret of the clan, and known only to a very few people on a 'need to know' basis. The 'tech level' of ordinary society is about that of the Diodachi, so you have plenty of Greek manuscripts on this kind of thing to work from. I think the Discovery channel also had a show where they built an Alexander-period diving suit from a manuscript, and tried it out in open water. Worked quite well, the diver said.

Here's a link to Leonardo's version of the gear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjzZ1-Plgjs

And from Howard Fielding of The Tekumel Project:



I should also mention that you, the GM, have the option of having the more high-status divers knowing the 'Control of Self' spell from EPT. However, trained divers who are also trained magic-users are pretty rare on the ground, so I'd expect the clan to use 'conventional' divers for the search phase and the 'unconventional' one for the actual recovery. And it's all billable time and expense, of course...

Originally Posted by Greentongue

This discussion with chirine ba kal pointed out that even as "Southern barbarians" they have clan associations.

I can't say how Phil started characters later on, but in 1974 they sure as hell did not.

We washed ashore with our boats that we sold for a handful of coins, and about six words of Tsolyani. The Southern Continent was completely Tekumel Incognita. We were informed in no uncertain terms that we dared not venture out of the Foreigners' Quarter without an escort of at least one citizen to make sure we didn't accidentally break some social rule we didn't understand. This proscription went until I think third level. We had no clan, no friends, and no safe harbor. That's why Moose, Anka'a, and I did indeed huddle together in a corner of a flophouse and take turns sleeping for safety's sake.

Starting out as a first level character in original EPT was rough.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I can't say how Phil started characters later on, but in 1974 they sure as hell did not.

We washed ashore with our boats that we sold for a handful of coins, and about six words of Tsolyani. The Southern Continent was completely Tekumel Incognita. We were informed in no uncertain terms that we dared not venture out of the Foreigners' Quarter without an escort of at least one citizen to make sure we didn't accidentally break some social rule we didn't understand. This proscription went until I think third level. We had no clan, no friends, and no safe harbor. That's why Moose, Anka'a, and I did indeed huddle together in a corner of a flophouse and take turns sleeping for safety's sake.

Starting out as a first level character in original EPT was rough.

Agreed!!! It was deadly, in the early days of the campaign, and I think Phil found out - and the PCs found out the hard way! - that his original approach was just too fatal for most players. People seemed, from the records that Phil kept, to come and go pretty often and I wonder if this was because of PC mortality.


When I started , in early 1976, Phil had pretty much abandoned the 'barbarians in a boat' gambit, and had begun putting people into the context of the society to get them started. It was also, I think, a rationale for keeping new people alive as the 'regular' players had by then gone up enough in ability to stay alive in the face of more high-powered threats. he made sure to integrate players into the clan structure, no matter how low, and this really increased survival rates.

Here's a poser for you, Glorious General. Arneson had a real reputation as a 'killer referee', and famously once said if he hadn't killed off half the party in the first thirty minutes of the game session he wasn't doing his job. (This is why we refused to go into the castle basement, when Phil sent us to Blackmoor.) This was due to the happenstance of Dave's 'evil' players eventually leaving, because of real life things, and Dave had to play all the 'bad guys' and monsters.

How much do you think Dave's play style influenced Phil, in the very early days of the EPT campaign?

From my perspective as an archivist and historian, the emphasis in play in the period 1974 - 1976 was pretty deadly, from what all of you have told me, and after the group split things 'eased up' as Phil spent more and more time exploring his world, and he had less and less influence from the original Blackmoor crowd. In my own experience with Phil in the early days, say 1976 to 1978, he seemed to be a very 'hesitant' and unsure of himself GM, and then seemed to get a better grip on game play as we went along. Again, from my time with him, he seemed a lot more sure of himself from 1978 to well into the middle 1980s, with a pretty confident grasp of what he did and did not want to have for game mechanics and play style.

Thoughts?

And yes, all of you in the 'first waves' had no social connections; you were all literally 'just off the boat', with nothing in the way of support structures. And a lot of people got dead, really quickly; I think that the 'turnover' in PCs may have been part of what caused Phil to emphasize the social contexts over the slaughter...

I think I may not be amiss at noting just how long, in real time, we were out playing at Phil's, and how long he ran his campaign. He got started in 1974, and gaming really didn't stop until the early 2000's, after he broke his hip and his health started to decline. And, of course, he'd been writing about and illustrating Tekumel since 1948...

The campaign seemed to have a number of 'stylistic phases', with the gaming style of the middle 1990s on being very different then the period 1978 - 1988, and the period 1974 - 1978 being different yet.

Comments?

Originally Posted by Greentongue

While I'm tempted to follow in these footsteps, and have in the past, the reason for the change makes sense. A poorly represented clan should be a good compromise.
Someone to help but not a lot of help and mostly just provide contacts.
The characters being there should be more help to the local few than the clan is to them?
The assumption is that the characters are "heroes in the making" and will bolster the locals.
=

I'd agree with this; you have to start somewhere, and I think this is a good way to do it. Ultimately, what works for you and your players is what's 'right'; all I can do is tell you what we saw in our time, 1976 to 1988. There's an old theater saying "Perfection is the enemy of good enough", and that's what I do in my own campaign.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I assume that in the Foreigner's Quarter there are vendor stalls like in the movies of streets in places like India. Outside of this area there is not?

Everything that can be sold is being sold and even if there is a clan house, being in the street improves the sales.
While rare or expensive products could be restricted to clan houses, I suspect that with so many people trying to survive, there are more "merchants" than clan houses.

We already discussed theft and disturbances in the street but what about faulty products?
I'm sure 'you buy it, you own it' is common but how common is outright fraud?
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Yes, pretty much. The clans that sell retail goods will have 'store fronts' attached to their clan houses, and there are plenty of 'merchants' as well.

Outright fraud and shoddy goods are rare, since upset customers usually have direct recourse with sharp, pointy things. There are 'tourist traps', like out in the Tomb City, which have lots of very shady vendors of things like fake Eyes and amulets; these are common inside the Quarter, as well. Potential purchasers are always advised to make sure that they are getting what they expected, preferably before payment is made...

Regarding the Professor's style of play changing a bit over time, it would be more surprising if it never changed one bit over 20+ years of play.