Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Nobody wants to play "This is your P-51D, it's just like all the other 8,155 P-51Ds out there. The difference is your skill" any more.

Silly rabbit. Why develop skill when you can invest in cards to stack your deck instead?

So, the situation here is that five years ago there were two stores that carried games, one was more of a comic shop and one was more of a game shop. Neither was making much of an effort and I thought I could get the support of the fairly strong Warhammer 40000 community to come and use my tables and have more hours, more table space, no carders trashing the store scenery I'd made because the owner didn't care.

What I didn't know is that somebody else was already planning to open a store and building his own support. If he'd told me as much straight up I'd have let him and thrown in my support for his venture. I just wanted a gaming area that had a bathroom available after hours and had enough space that stuff wouldn't get knocked on the floor by people squeezing through because there wasn't enough space.

Anyhow, after a year he opened up and as a result the other stores picked up their game. They didn't mind me because I didn't have any money to work with and they were established. Anyhow, it's a very tight market and the competition is so bad that nobody makes money on Magic. Oh well, I've been going five years and going into the third year of a bad recession in Alberta, I expect my competitors are hurting too.

And, I've made my share of mistakes:
The cheap rent helps but the location stinks. Of pot from the tenants upstairs mostly. I out lasted one batch of pot heads and now a new batch has moved in. If I had the money I'd just move and tell the land lord he's had a full game worth of strikes.

I said some true things about Games Workshop when pressed about why I don't play Warhammer anymore. The fact they lost money for a couple of years and turned away from several bad policies as a result proves that I was right but it didn't make me any friends.

I've stocked things I liked and failed to sell them. I've been honest about the drawbacks of various products rather than selling really difficult kits to unskilled modellers.

I've given too many discounts (usually because I need the cash pretty badly) and people have come to expect them without considering their impact on me.

I've been paralysed by doubt at times and haven't promoted the store like I needed to. Why spend money on promotion when you expect to give notice and close next month?

And I don't run leagues and tournaments. Honestly, I hate leagues and tournaments. I really do. If I hade people who wanted to run them I'd provide prize support and stuff, but personally it's a toxic mentality for the hobby. Sure an arms race can lead to sales but the competitive nature of the things also drives new players out of the hobby.

Oh well, one thing I've been thinking about a lot is that the hobby has become too expensive for many of my customers. I'm not sure how to approach it. But there are guys who might like miniatures games if they could afford them. This is a combination of factors. Kings of War is a fast, fun game but it runs best with a couple hundred figures on the table. That's a barrier to entry. I'm wondering if Frost Grave or something might serve better. I do carry Mutant Chronicles Warzone which is in the 30-50 figure range, but the figures are in a resin that's hard to paint and the figures, while neat, are often hard to assemble though their newer releases have moved towards fewer pieces and the game is very detailed and complex.

Oh well, we'll see what the new year brings.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

If I ever have any time in the Cities I'll have to stop by FFG.

I like the basics of the X-wing game, but then... giving in to market forces, granted... they had to add the "deck building" element of more and more different ships to buy and more goop you can hang off the basic ship.

Nobody wants to play "This is your P-51D, it's just like all the other 8,155 P-51Ds out there. The difference is your skill" any more.

And in some circles that I've observed, 'skill' is near akin to outright cheating. Gaming, in a lot of ways, has become "my shambling mathematical construct lurches into your shambling mathematical construct, and we roll dice until our eyes bleed." Thank you, but no; I'll stick with what I like, and this ain't it.

Originally Posted by Black Vulmea

Silly rabbit. Why develop skill when you can invest in cards to stack your deck instead?

A very accurate observation. Them that has the most money to invest in the game stuff wins the game.

Originally Posted by David Johansen

So, the situation here is that five years ago there were two stores that carried games, one was more of a comic shop and one was more of a game shop. Neither was making much of an effort and I thought I could get the support of the fairly strong Warhammer 40000 community to come and use my tables and have more hours, more table space, no carders trashing the store scenery I'd made because the owner didn't care.

What I didn't know is that somebody else was already planning to open a store and building his own support. If he'd told me as much straight up I'd have let him and thrown in my support for his venture. I just wanted a gaming area that had a bathroom available after hours and had enough space that stuff wouldn't get knocked on the floor by people squeezing through because there wasn't enough space.

Anyhow, after a year he opened up and as a result the other stores picked up their game. They didn't mind me because I didn't have any money to work with and they were established. Anyhow, it's a very tight market and the competition is so bad that nobody makes money on Magic. Oh well, I've been going five years and going into the third year of a bad recession in Alberta, I expect my competitors are hurting too.

And, I've made my share of mistakes:
The cheap rent helps but the location stinks. Of pot from the tenants upstairs mostly. I out lasted one batch of pot heads and now a new batch has moved in. If I had the money I'd just move and tell the land lord he's had a full game worth of strikes.

I said some true things about Games Workshop when pressed about why I don't play Warhammer anymore. The fact they lost money for a couple of years and turned away from several bad policies as a result proves that I was right but it didn't make me any friends.

I've stocked things I liked and failed to sell them. I've been honest about the drawbacks of various products rather than selling really difficult kits to unskilled modellers.

I've given too many discounts (usually because I need the cash pretty badly) and people have come to expect them without considering their impact on me.

I've been paralysed by doubt at times and haven't promoted the store like I needed to. Why spend money on promotion when you expect to give notice and close next month?

And I don't run leagues and tournaments. Honestly, I hate leagues and tournaments. I really do. If I hade people who wanted to run them I'd provide prize support and stuff, but personally it's a toxic mentality for the hobby. Sure an arms race can lead to sales but the competitive nature of the things also drives new players out of the hobby.

Oh well, one thing I've been thinking about a lot is that the hobby has become too expensive for many of my customers. I'm not sure how to approach it. But there are guys who might like miniatures games if they could afford them. This is a combination of factors. Kings of War is a fast, fun game but it runs best with a couple hundred figures on the table. That's a barrier to entry. I'm wondering if Frost Grave or something might serve better. I do carry Mutant Chronicles Warzone which is in the 30-50 figure range, but the figures are in a resin that's hard to paint and the figures, while neat, are often hard to assemble though their newer releases have moved towards fewer pieces and the game is very detailed and complex.

Oh well, we'll see what the new year brings.

Ouch; I hear you.

I agree with you about tournament play, but I also agree with Greentongue that it does pack them into the shop. Not the kind of play that I like, but it does sell the merchandise a lot of the time.

Promotion. Always. without it, nobody knows you're there, and you wind up with overheads and no customers. I can sympathize with you on this; been there, done that, stuck with the fifty T-shirts that the customer didn't pay for.

Discounts. Ouch. Have you considered a 'loyalty card' sort of thing, where regular customers can 'earn' discounts with regular purchases?

And your upstairs folk are a killer; they'll drive away a lot of your customers...

Originally Posted by Greentongue

While it may be a toxic mentality, it is also returning traffic.

Maybe there are team games like Zombicide, a cooperative boardgame, that would work?
(plus sell Characters for it/them)

It is all about the social experience. Stuff can be bought online but Face to Face is not yet an option.
While the video chat options have improved a lot over the years. It is still great to get out of the house.
I'm guilty of playing MtG for years and supporting a specific local store just for the face time it gives me once a week.

If Tekumel gaming was more popular, you could have replaceable paper setting models that people could use for games in the store.
Then sell them replacement copies.
=

Agreed! All very good points.

As for Tekumel gaming in stores, it's got the problem of not having much of anything to put on the shelf, and in the current 'regulatory environment' that's not likely to change any time soon.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Ouch; I hear you.
stuck with the fifty T-shirts that the customer didn't pay for.

Discounts. Ouch. Have you considered a 'loyalty card' sort of thing, where regular customers can 'earn' discounts with regular purchases?

And your upstairs folk are a killer; they'll drive away a lot of your customers...

At one point there were pole dancing classes downstairs. Had a number of people suggest I should look at a business model involving a peep hole. Honestly there was only one time I really wanted one. There was a loud crash and a lot of laughing. I bet it was a badly failed leaping mount.

The problem with discounts is that everyone else is offering them and everyone expects them as a result. Especially with the low Canadian dollar this last year. Everything jumping 50% is brutal and right now people just don't have money for toys. One of the reasons I want to do casting is it lets me get a larger profit margin on something while selling it for less. I also have this fantasy about doing an Arcane Confabulation boxed set with a wooden box, foam padding, and miniatures. Essentially using separate heads and hands to increase variety while keeping the number of moulds down.

Have you ever worked in screen printing? I've been doing it as a day job for 27 years. I've considered setting up to do it myself a few times but don't really enjoy it enough to want to.

I may actually have players that would go for Tekumal. Is the Jeff Dee Bethorm thing a fully playable game?

Originally Posted by David Johansen

I may actually have players that would go for Tekumal. Is the Jeff Dee Bethorm thing a fully playable game?

Yes, and I like it.
Can't tell if it would be a good investment for your store, but I have been playing with it for a while now (after I got bored of translating spells on the fly to my homebrew). If it is about running it, though, you might want to give it a shot.