Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by David Johansen

Well it's not a roaring success. It might have worked better in a larger city. I need to work harder at making it profitable. From what I'm seeing that probably means painting miniatures to sell and doing on-line sales. I've been working on sculpting 1/32 stuff to cast and paint up as curios as many walk-ins just aren't looking to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a new hobby. I need to try and do some wargame tournaments or events. Roleplaying just doesn't make as much money as miniatures. I also need to finish up some of my own games and try to make a few bucks there. I think there's light at the end of the tunnel this year. But sadly, I never did capture much of the market here.

Don't be too hard on yourself; a lot of what you're saying is also true here in the Twin Cities, which is probably a larger 'catchment basin' then where you are. here, miniatures are a dead issue. Unless you play the top four or five 'brand name' games, there is very little retail support of any kind for them; not surprising, as they just don't sell - mostly because there is no support or community present to put on games and make people feel welcome. There is a lot of 'private club' mentality here, which keeps new people at bay. RPGs do sell a bit better, but that's mostly because the biggest local game store has a guy who runs them like a maniac, with multiple sessions of various games each week. Pathfinder does well, but that's because of the very persuasive on-line support from Piazo and the support they provide to the retailer.

CCGs and comics are the mainstay money-makers hereabouts, with RPGs a distant second, and miniatures waaay off in the corner as a sort of nod to the past history of gaming. The biggest local FLGS has been dumping a lot of their historical miniatures stock at 75% off list, just to get rid of it, and concentrating on lines that attract attention in the gaming press and have lots of support from the producers. The little 'boutique' miniatures sellers (and small RPG 'indies' too, for that matter) are pretty much all gone from the retail scene, and are now Internet/mail order houses. I'm told that FFG makes their money on their event center from their food and beverage sales, not from the retail game sales. 'Generic' stuff simply does not sell; there had to be a dedicated set of rules and events / tournament support for specific lines in order for them to sell. There is some of it on the racks, but under a deal with the manufacturers as what amounts to 'consignment sales' deals.

I think you're looking at on-line and promotional events are the right track. All of the local stores now have their on-line component, and a lot of the more interesting stuff is found there; lower overheads, lower costs, and higher profit margins. The retail space itself is aimed at the walk-in market, with the idea of getting people in to play - once they play, they'll buy.

I still drop by there on a regular basis, but I have stopped going to the other and smaller stores in the Twin Cities; no changes in their merchandise lines, and I've pretty much bought out anything and everything from them that I was interested in. About the only stuff I buy retail these days is TRE Games stuff, as they have a big display where I can see the merchandise before I but it. The trireme was a good example of an 'impulse buy'; saw it, picked it up, and fell in love with it. A quick $80 sale, there.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Don't be too hard on yourself; a lot of what you're saying is also true here in the Twin Cities, which is probably a larger 'catchment basin' then where you are. here, miniatures are a dead issue. Unless you play the top four or five 'brand name' games, there is very little retail support of any kind for them; not surprising, as they just don't sell - mostly because there is no support or community present to put on games and make people feel welcome. There is a lot of 'private club' mentality here, which keeps new people at bay. RPGs do sell a bit better, but that's mostly because the biggest local game store has a guy who runs them like a maniac, with multiple sessions of various games each week. Pathfinder does well, but that's because of the very persuasive on-line support from Piazo and the support they provide to the retailer.

CCGs and comics are the mainstay money-makers hereabouts, with RPGs a distant second, and miniatures waaay off in the corner as a sort of nod to the past history of gaming. The biggest local FLGS has been dumping a lot of their historical miniatures stock at 75% off list, just to get rid of it, and concentrating on lines that attract attention in the gaming press and have lots of support from the producers. The little 'boutique' miniatures sellers (and small RPG 'indies' too, for that matter) are pretty much all gone from the retail scene, and are now Internet/mail order houses. I'm told that FFG makes their money on their event center from their food and beverage sales, not from the retail game sales. 'Generic' stuff simply does not sell; there had to be a dedicated set of rules and events / tournament support for specific lines in order for them to sell. There is some of it on the racks, but under a deal with the manufacturers as what amounts to 'consignment sales' deals.

I think you're looking at on-line and promotional events are the right track. All of the local stores now have their on-line component, and a lot of the more interesting stuff is found there; lower overheads, lower costs, and higher profit margins. The retail space itself is aimed at the walk-in market, with the idea of getting people in to play - once they play, they'll buy.

I still drop by there on a regular basis, but I have stopped going to the other and smaller stores in the Twin Cities; no changes in their merchandise lines, and I've pretty much bought out anything and everything from them that I was interested in. About the only stuff I buy retail these days is TRE Games stuff, as they have a big display where I can see the merchandise before I but it. The trireme was a good example of an 'impulse buy'; saw it, picked it up, and fell in love with it. A quick $80 sale, there.

* cries *

I know it's true, but damn.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Is 3D printing affordable yet? Seems that "curios" could be made on demand if so.
Or a laser cutter for on-demand heavy paper props.

An in store or web program that allows customers to select their personalized options and then generate them there for pickup may be interesting.
Dungeon layout pieces as needed?
=

You get what you pay for. The better - and more expensive - machines create better products, but the real barrier to cheap production is the software skills needed to create the files for the machines. Simple objects are, I am told, available as stock items for sale, but anything custom means a lot of labor. poser art had the same issues for quite a while; you could get the stock stuff really cheap, but anything custom cost.

Resin casting is still more cost-effective for anything that needs to be duplicated; 3-D still shines for prototyping. Laser-cutting falls between the two, and it all depends on who you can call on. Me, I'm lazy, and go with TRE Games stuff.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

* cries *

I know it's true, but damn.

Yep. The big money, my General, is in a hot dog stand with lots of tables where people can play games and log onto the Internet. Just like the FFG Events Center, actually. People go there as a 'destination', and spend the day noshing on the food and drink. Guess what has the highest profit margins?

If I were to suddenly lose my mind and want to run a game convention, I would not charge for entry at all - I'd book one heck of a lot of games, and then have exclusive rights to the concessions stands. Like Origins and Gen Con, back in our day, where the convention center was the one who made piles and piles of money off the people in the hall - or GPS, these days, selling chips and sodas at Recon.

And as for the kind of gaming we used to do, where a bunch of friends got together at somebody's house for an afternoon and/or evening of fun and gaming, forget it. That seems to be as dead as the proverbial dodo, hereabouts. Suggest such a thing, and you get looked at like you're an axe murderer looking for prey.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yep. The big money, my General, is in a hot dog stand with lots of tables where people can play games and log onto the Internet. Just like the FFG Events Center, actually. People go there as a 'destination', and spend the day noshing on the food and drink. Guess what has the highest profit margins?

If I were to suddenly lose my mind and want to run a game convention, I would not charge for entry at all - I'd book one heck of a lot of games, and then have exclusive rights to the concessions stands. Like Origins and Gen Con, back in our day, where the convention center was the one who made piles and piles of money off the people in the hall - or GPS, these days, selling chips and sodas at Recon.

And as for the kind of gaming we used to do, where a bunch of friends got together at somebody's house for an afternoon and/or evening of fun and gaming, forget it. That seems to be as dead as the proverbial dodo, hereabouts. Suggest such a thing, and you get looked at like you're an axe murderer looking for prey.

Find us a venue where we can serve beer and we'll both be rich. Even food is chump change compared to drinks.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

That is what I'm talking about. YOUR character not an army of generic troops.
The software to do it is getting more available all the time.

People will pay a premium for Their Character if the quality is acceptable.
Incremental charges for accessories are a slippery slope as well.
Even if they never actually play a game with the character, having it is an attraction.
=

Agreed! The detail that I've seen on samples is good enough for 54mm figures, but a little too coarse for 25 / 28 mm figures. Give it time; it'll come.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Find us a venue where we can serve beer and we'll both be rich. Even food is chump change compared to drinks.

FFG's Event Center; last time I looked, four beers on tap, none of them the cheap stuff. If they weren't in Rosedale, in an industrial park, they'd get a lot more walk-in traffic. But then, the building lease was cheap, and that would go up in a better location. See also the very posh gaming-with-wine-and-beer places on the West Coast; Seattle is a hotbed of these.

Get the license, train the staff, and your fortune is assured. Start-up costs would be highish, but them's the breaks. I'd locate it in someplace like Chicago, myself; the Twin Cities suffers from lousy public transportation and is just a little too spread out to be really efficient.

If I ever have any time in the Cities I'll have to stop by FFG.

I like the basics of the X-wing game, but then... giving in to market forces, granted... they had to add the "deck building" element of more and more different ships to buy and more goop you can hang off the basic ship.

Nobody wants to play "This is your P-51D, it's just like all the other 8,155 P-51Ds out there. The difference is your skill" any more.