Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Short term thinking does seem to be more of a new trend.

Anyway, while I love all the details of the family, it isn't something that is easy to directly apply to starting players (besides how their new contacts fit into the scheme of things).

What may be more useful to new players is the types of inter-clan and intra-clan scheming that is going on or can be expected.

"Country Bumpkins" need interesting things they can become involved in and survive. (Assuming they have some level of common sense.)

How hostile is life in general? From your family size I have to assume it is a very "Dog eat Dog" world since high population and limited resources breeds intense competition for everything.

Does this competition effect every aspect of life?
I didn't get a feeling of internal family backstabbing besides the no co-husband.

Am I completely into "My Tekumel" and not the one you experience?
=

Agreed; I think very long term myself, and it's considered 'odd'.

Agreed. I was just trying to answer the question.

Please feel free to ask me about this, if you like. 'Intra-clan scheming' is generally limited to the largest of the clans, such as the Ito and Vriddi, and is usually based on political matters - both examples have factions, based on their relationships with the Imperium, and both have a lot of their clan members spending time in the Catacombs of Silent Waiting below Avanthar.

Agreed. I had a lot of fun with the 'Country Bumpkin' gambit, myself.

Tekumel is not a human-friendly world; we are not at the top of the food chain - about a third down, I think. The flora and fauna, not to mention the hostile non-humans, can make something as simple as plowing a field difficult. Hence the need for player-characters - somebody has to go out to the clan's farm outside of town to deal that Serudla who's been terrorizing the farmers. Etc., etc. , etc. Phil built this world to adventure in, after all.

Re 'competition', I don't know. In-family/clan scheming isn't very common, from my experience; the clan/family tends to be pretty unified about things. 'External' competion, on the other hand, is pretty wide-spread; 'keeping up with the hi Chaisyani or the Sea Blue clan' is normal, and can be a lot of fun to play - "Honey, Lady Mnella has those lovely new drapes from Livyanu; can I get some? Please?" - and we're off on yet another adventure!

I don't know. What is 'your Tekumel?'

So far, at least in this discussion, it sounds a lot like Phil's in the general run of things. Yes, I can see detail variations, but all of them have been 'well within the lines' of Phil's own gaming. Your questions sound just like what we asked Phil, some thirty-five years ago, so i think you're on the same path that we have been.

Originally Posted by Bren

I'm not a huge fan of parody, but I'll look for it. At least it sounds more like parody written by someone who likes the original than what seems the more common form where the parody is written by someone who despises the source.

It was first written by Randall Garrett, the author of the "Lord D'Arcy" series, and first shown to E. E. 'Doc' Smith for his comments. Doc laughed his head off all through the convention they were both at, and suggested the ship's name, the Dentless, as a parody of his own Dauntless. Phil once mentioned that Doc had a great sense of humor, and didn't take himself too seriously; he used to dress up as a Grey Lensman at conventions - but as his own age, as a slightly 'over-the-hill' Lensman who had trouble catching the bad guys because he couldn't walk fast enough...

'Doc', by the way, is credited by the US Navy for the invention of the Combat Information Center for warships; we follow in the footsteps of giants...

Originally Posted by Bren

I'm not a huge fan of parody, but I'll look for it. At least it sounds more like parody written by someone who likes the original than what seems the more common form where the parody is written by someone who despises the source.

I love good parody, but in my book "good" parody is only written by somebody who really, deeply loves the source.

Like "Bored of the Rings." Remove the dated drug and political jokes, and there are sections in it that make it obvious that gang really, really loved Lord of the Rings. You'd have to, to read it that many times to be able to parody it that well.

And, of course, parody was a highly prized form by Golden Age fantasy and SF writers... the Stainless Steel Rat, Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers, Bill the Galactic Hero, even Fafhrd & the Mouser have elements of parody, to mention nothing of Midsummer Tempest and Harold Shea.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I assume that things that would be embarrassing if they became common knowledge would be great for starting characters to resolve.
Running out of "performance enhancing" herb, gambling debt, Clan Stamp missing, forgetting to get that item the favorite wife wanted ...

The problem is, what is embarrassing? If not embarrassing then what types of things would need to be handled "quietly" and creatively?

What about Zuur?



Charging for more than shipped, diverting products or raw materials, causing "accidents" to clan property?
What would be things that would be done and how far would someone go to avoid Imperial involvement?

Fishing for adventure ideas here and maybe some you have used/done.
=

Well, first off, anything that makes your clan, legion, temple, etc. look bad - i.e., held up to ridicule. All of your examples are, in greater or lesser degree, 'embarrassing', and you'd prefer to handle them on the quiet. You could add stupid actions at parties, getting caught with your fingers in the clan / temple / legion's coffers - I once killed a High Priest of the Temple of Vimuhla, on the spot, for embezzling from the temple's funds - cowardice in the face of the enemy, rape, treason, and other similar violations of the society's norms.

One of the odder things we had to do was get one of the PC's out of town in a hurry, as he'd gotten stupid and molested the city goevrnor's daughter at a party. We were told to get rid of him quietly and discreetly, so we hit him with an Excellent Ruby Eye, stuffed him in a crate, and shipped the crate off as quickly as we could. (This is the origin of "The Inexorable Cart Of Chirine ba Kal", my contribution to the Saturday Night Specials that Phil used.)

Your second set of things are also really good, and are the sort of thing that the clans want to handle themselves. They are also used, as I think you mentioned, as 'sanctions' against those who try to mess over the clan. Temples also might do this sort of thing, but they usually have the assassins' clans or their own temple guards and younger staff do the dirty work. Legions tend to react badly, and simply crush anyone who annoys them.

Everybody wants to keep the Imperium out of their affairs; once the OAL gets in the door, they tend to ask all sorts of questions. Everybody goes to pretty far lengths to keep the Imperium out - cheaper to hire player-characters to deal with the problem!

An example was the guy I killed in Khirgar for insulting people at a party; everybody, including his clan-elders, thought he was being a jerk. if he'd been drunk, he would have been excused, but he was sober - just stupid. I challenged him, and he got stupider by exceeding the terms of the duel; he got dead, in front of a pretty good audience, and his clan thanked me for settling the problem for them.

Mind you, one does not just go around killing people at parties; it does get one talked about. One has to have a pretty good reason, and unfortunately there are plenty of stupid people around.

Zu'ur is a huge no-no, as it's going to attract the immediate and dire attention of the Imperium. A clan / temple/ etc. will move very fast, very hard, and very, very quietly to deal with this issue. They will do their best to hide the addict until they die or (rarely) recover, and kill the supplier as fast as they can find them. The alternative is having the OAL in for a visit, which gets very nasty very quickly. Adventures ensue, as you'd expect, and you have to deal with the Hlyss...

Is this what you're looking for?

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I love good parody, but in my book "good" parody is only written by somebody who really, deeply loves the source.

Like "Bored of the Rings." Remove the dated drug and political jokes, and there are sections in it that make it obvious that gang really, really loved Lord of the Rings. You'd have to, to read it that many times to be able to parody it that well.

"We boggies are a hairy folk, we love to eat until we choke;"
"Sing gobble, gobble, gobble!"
"Loving all like friend and brother, we hardly ever eat each other..."
"Sing gobble, gobble, gobble!"

"A Unicef Clearasil,
Gibberish an' drivel,
With a hey dey derry Tums Gardol..."

"He would have finished him off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. It's a pity I've run out of bullets, he thought, as he went back up the tunnel..."