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Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

  1. #4891
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    Agreed. I've known some real shits, over the years, and I don't feel the need to give them any more of my time and energy. What's been done has been done, and they'll have to live with the consequences of their actions.

    Well, I think I need to state my bias at the outset; when I first started with Phil, back in early '76, I was right up front with him about wanting to be the informal archivist of his creative process. Nothing more, nothing less; what I wanted to do - and then did for decades - was simply collect, record, and store the data being generated every Thursday night. The 'custom of the house' was that every time Phil did a map or drawing, I'd make a copy and he'd keep the original. Phil was a very disorganized 'housekeeper', and after a while I would up running two sets of records in parallel. For all intents and purposes, I was the 'back-up copy'. That's it; that's all. And that's what I did.

    After he passed away, I was able to make a full and complete copy of all of his files, both paper and electronic. I filled in the gaps in his collection from mine, and mine from his; I also got help from Tekumel fans from all over the world, who contributed bits of their own that they'd found over the years. At this point, what I'd consider 'the crown jewels' would be:

    - The 1950s 'proto-Tekumel' materials: The maps, documents, house rules, and artwork from Phil's high school and college games. These include his fannish materials, as well as the unfinished (and lost for decades until I found it) first Tekumel novel.

    - The 12-13 chapters of "Beside The Dark Pool of Memory". his last and unfinished Tekumel novel.

    - His childhood toy soldiers. We did a complete photo inventory of these, as well as making copies of the photos of his childhood games that his dad took.

    - The bitmaps of his fonts for his languages. A lot of these were never published.

    - His artwork. One could do a coffee-table book of his artwork.

    - The audio tapes. Several of the original players in our group did a series of recorded interviews with him in the late 1980s, on all sorts of Tekumel-related subjects. These tapes have never been published, and have been sitting in my files for decades unheard. We also have tapes of game sessions with him.

    What did surprise me about going through his files was that there was not a lot of 'new' material - by which I mean, 'new' to me. A lot of it would be new to people, especially now that most of our old publications are no longer available. Could it be published sooner, rather then later? Sure, if somebody put the effort into it.
    Yes, where once I had imagined his archives were a cornucopia of previously-unseen Tekumel, I did get the impression in the last few years that that wasn't really the case. So mostly we must hope for republication of previously-published material?

    I know I would love to see the content of the Imperial Courier and other 80s journals republished. Whenever I look at the tables of contents I drool. Somewhere I got a sense that those were copyright individual authors, and it would be almost impossible to republish the journals in their original form (is that so?), but even if individual articles could be republished, that would be fantastic.

    I agree a book of the Professors art would be amazing, he may not have been the best Tekumel artist technically, but nobody illustrated his world quite as well as he did

  2. #4892
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    Thank you! And I do agree - the sheer volume of storage space is a pain, sometimes.

    Yes; as far as we know, both the Ssu and Hlyss are oxygen-breathers. And yes, swamps on Tekumel are pretty much the same as Terran ones. I don't know about the sulphur content - I would have thought that methane would have been the primary component of swamp gas, but I'm no expert on this.

    I shall report back, of course!
    Excellent! Thank you, Uncle, I'm researching swamp fires now, and that's going to be fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirunel View Post
    Yes, where once I had imagined his archives were a cornucopia of previously-unseen Tekumel, I did get the impression in the last few years that that wasn't really the case. So mostly we must hope for republication of previously-published material?
    Or we can go to the same sources as MAR Barker did. Except we don't need to go out of our homes for this, and we can make our own Tekumels.
    And of course, the list of things we've never seen that Chirine suggested is also interesting. But I get the feeling MAR Barker would be even happier with the first option.
    Last edited by AsenRG; 11-16-2016 at 09:49 AM.
    "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky

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    Oh I am a firm believer in people making their own Tekumels. There are so many gaps and people should have the courage to fill them by just making stuff up.

    Tekumel has way too much of a history of fans believing there was only one real Tekumel, that it lived in Minneapolis, and that personal Tekumels elsewhere were likely to be "wrong" or at least inadequate. I remember for many years fans would clamour for news from "Tekumel Prime" as if they were insecure about their own games and needed to bring them into line with "real Tekumel." In a way, I think the fact that the creator ran an active game of his own actually held back the wider spread of personal Tekumels and of the game as a whole.

    That said, when I see there was an article on Tekumel coinage (hopefully with illustrations?) or some other setting topic, I can't help wanting to see it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirunel View Post
    Oh I am a firm believer in people making their own Tekumels. There are so many gaps and people should have the courage to fill them by just making stuff up.
    We're in agreement, then.
    And I recommend documentaries and non-fiction books as the best tools for Tekumel playing.

    Tekumel has way too much of a history of fans believing there was only one real Tekumel, that it lived in Minneapolis, and that personal Tekumels elsewhere were likely to be "wrong" or at least inadequate.
    I've never understood that feeling, but yes, it seems to be there. Maybe the game should have been less advertised?
    I mean, I'm sure Greg Stafford can run Pendragon or Glorantha, in fact he probably does, and yet people wouldn't think their variants of it are any less adequate!
    The author of Legends of Wulin was running his own game, and yet people weren't looking at it for news. For ideas, yes, certainly, and he has a funny way of describing it!

    That said, when I see there was an article on Tekumel coinage (hopefully with illustrations?) or some other setting topic, I can't help wanting to see it!
    Getting ideas from other gamers is something I can totally understand.
    Sometimes, that becomes a rulebook.
    "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky

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    "Bit of a breeze here today, Chirine."
    "Why yes, Harchar, quite brisk indeed. Has anybody seen the Glorious General, I need to deliver the morning reports."
    * BAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRFF!!!!! *
    "...found him..."
    I don't care if you respect me, just buy my fucking book.

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  6. #4896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya View Post
    "Bit of a breeze here today, Chirine."
    "Why yes, Harchar, quite brisk indeed. Has anybody seen the Glorious General, I need to deliver the morning reports."
    * BAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRFF!!!!! *
    "...found him..."
    Actual moment from a game, I presume, Glorious General?
    "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky

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    I think it's the...somewhat inaccessible nature of Tekumel as opposed to the knowledge of a home game. Everyone knew Gary ran Greyhawk, and no one cared that Greyhawk-185463 wasn't in line with Greyhawk-1. Same with the Realms. But Greyhawk is based on Appendix N and Western European medivalism combined with Western American culture.

    Glorantha is based on Campbellian Myth and Tekumel is based on a foundation that most US gamers don't have background in. As a result, I think the reason those two settings in particular suffer from the "Doing it Right" problem is that many GMs, being less familiar with the content as a result are less confident to just take it and run with it.

    The lunatic shitdogs that somehow wound up in charge of the Tekumel license and considered themselves the Enlightened Elite because of it probably didn't help things.
    Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

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  8. #4898
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    Attachment 531

    Decks and upperworks in teak oil, lower hull in wood stain. Oars still drying; teak oil. Sails artists' canvas, still to be tied properly. Masts can come off.
    This is what forty years of practice can do for you, kids.

    Chirine, you are a true master.
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  9. #4899
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    well, it didn't help that whenever an outsider enthusiastically shared details of their personal Tekumel, there was often a helpful insider ready to step in and tell them no, you're wrong, the Governor of Urmish is not Someone hiMadeup, it's Someone'else hiNeverheardofbefore. So yeah. Go ahead and make stuff up but keep quiet about it because it's wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRKrueger View Post
    I think it's the...somewhat inaccessible nature of Tekumel as opposed to the knowledge of a home game. Everyone knew Gary ran Greyhawk, and no one cared that Greyhawk-185463 wasn't in line with Greyhawk-1. Same with the Realms. But Greyhawk is based on Appendix N and Western European medivalism combined with Western American culture.
    Most Americans know just as little about the European Middle Ages* as they do about the Islamic Golden Age. Why don't they apply the same cheerful ignorance to Tekumel that they've applied to Greyhawk?

    *To the extent that Greyhawk is actually based on the European Middle Ages, which I don't think is a given.


    Glorantha is based on Campbellian Myth and Tekumel is based on a foundation that most US gamers don't have background in.
    I've never even heard of Glorantha encountering the same issues as Tekumel.

    As a result, I think the reason those two settings in particular suffer from the "Doing it Right" problem is that many GMs, being less familiar with the content as a result are less confident to just take it and run with it.
    And in reality, they should. It's going to be as accurate as a D&D game is to medieval culture...and that's fine even by me.

    The lunatic shitdogs that somehow wound up in charge of the Tekumel license and considered themselves the Enlightened Elite because of it probably didn't help things.
    Yeah, they probably didn't, I'd agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirunel View Post
    well, it didn't help that whenever an outsider enthusiastically shared details of their personal Tekumel, there was often a helpful insider ready to step in and tell them no, you're wrong, the Governor of Urmish is not Someone hiMadeup, it's Someone'else hiNeverheardofbefore. So yeah. Go ahead and make stuff up but keep quiet about it because it's wrong.
    Is that a Thing?
    Because I should write the AP of my campaign if it is. Anyone who corrects me in such a manner is likely to get one of my famous answers.
    "Thanks, but the one you mentioned is dead or disgraced. Now it's whoever I say it is" is the mildest form, if I think the guy was being helpful.
    If I think the guy was being smug, I might use the hard form instead.
    "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky

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