Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Why, yes, my General. My rules, and the world-setting that they are based in, are fatally flawed because - since this is a Fantasy Role-playing World - there is no horsed cavalry or real artillery. There are also none of the required fantasy elements such as elves, dwarves, orcs, and the like, and so the rules needed to be substantially fixed to have all this material in them. Otherwise, I was told, the 'market demographic' of D&D players would not buy them.

Basically, the whole thing smelled like somebody was trying to get around whatever copyrights somebody else might have - this was also the time when there was much talk about 'Chainmail - The Movie', which was a really obvious try at getting past WotC and which spawned a very interesting lawsuit that I followed with much fascination.

Eventually, I pointed out that there was a company called 'Games Workshop' which had the kind of game that they really wanted, and that I had no interest in producing yet another bog-standard set of 'fantasy miniatures rules'. Or any other set of fantasy miniatures rules, as the market is littered with the corpses of game companies that have tried this over the past thirty years - leaving a trail of discontinued miniatures lines in their wake, too.

See also my being able to buy up literally hundreds of miniatures over the years, as companies collapse and leave retailers with walls and walls full of miniatures on display. Figures that I like, which I can't afford at retail, I'm getting at 75% off or even deeper discounts.

You know, after all these years you'd think I would have reached the point of no longer being surprised by stupid shit people think up, but NO....

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Hmm, now I wonder what would happen if a member of Striding Incantation decides to "go rogue" and starts abusing that...
Imagine one of the Monday/Thursday Night players playing one, for clarity

I actually can't imagine any of those people playing anyone from the clan; too different a mind-set.

If there was a 'rogue', nobody would ever hear about it, given how tightly-knit the clan is; heck, we don't even know for sure if they are human...

Originally Posted by CRKrueger

Put any of the minis in a High Ride diorama?

No, actually, I did not; it hadn't even crossed my mind. Too predictable, too obvious, too easy; I am, as Gronan can tell you, none of the above. "Laughter is the bane of tyrants," somebody much smarter then I once said, so I went for the laughter instead and did parodies of them as miniatures. They now appear as random encounters in my games, and the players do the one thing that they cannot handle - laugh at them. So, if you ever run into an old crone who claims to have amazing occult powers, a smooth-talking con man, a venomous fraudster, and a very strange but well-dressed lich, then you'll have met some of them.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

You know, after all these years you'd think I would have reached the point of no longer being surprised by stupid shit people think up, but NO....

No, indeed. As the discussion went on, it was very obvious that what was wanted was to attach my name and my game's title to the project for prestige reasons but that the people managing the project had little or no information on or experience with the miniatures hobby. What they wanted to do was cash in on the notion that "Chainmail" is the actual source of the RPG hobby, and how "Warhammer" males millions of dollars every year. No idea of the work involved, the way the industry works, or even how the manufacturing process for miniatures actually happens these days.

Similarly, I had a bunch of people come by and tell me that they wanted to do a new RPG for Tekumel, which would use the D&D 4.0 rules in their entire glory. They told me that my participation was vital to the project, but never did happen to mention what I would get out of it if I participated in it; the main thrust of their coming around was - it turned out - was to get control of what's in the basement. Their market research consisted of one of the people involved saying that all his players in his 4.0 campaign loved the rules - he's also one of the most boring number-crunchers I've ever had to sit through an afternoon with - and their 'business plan' consisted of a direct copy of GW's one-paragraph 'mission statement' off the GW website. When it was pointed out tot hem that WotC might have issues with their rules being reprinted by them without permission or a license - the OGL and SRD were mentioned to these people - they simply looked at me blankly. They had no idea how the RPG industry works.

I've had some real smooth- and fast-talking idiots come through here, over the past five years. Which is why I no longer allow casual visitors to visit, any more. The two guys who came by this past March on their way to your Gary Con game were the last straw, actually.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I actually can't imagine any of those people playing anyone from the clan; too different a mind-set.

If there was a 'rogue', nobody would ever hear about it, given how tightly-knit the clan is; heck, we don't even know for sure if they are human...

OK, imagine me, or anyone else you think can pull that off, choosing a goal that can be achieved by hurting some people, and then doing so. They can't sue me, can't attack me directly, the Ndalu clan isn't taking an order on me.
What is the retaliation going to be?

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Similarly, I had a bunch of people come by and tell me that they wanted to do a new RPG for Tekumel, which would use the D&D 4.0 rules in their entire glory. They told me that my participation was vital to the project, but never did happen to mention what I would get out of it if I participated in it; the main thrust of their coming around was - it turned out - was to get control of what's in the basement. Their market research consisted of one of the people involved saying that all his players in his 4.0 campaign loved the rules - he's also one of the most boring number-crunchers I've ever had to sit through an afternoon with - and their 'business plan' consisted of a direct copy of GW's one-paragraph 'mission statement' off the GW website. When it was pointed out tot hem that WotC might have issues with their rules being reprinted by them without permission or a license - the OGL and SRD were mentioned to these people - they simply looked at me blankly. They had no idea how the RPG industry works.

I know that it wasn't nearly as funny to you, Uncle...but really, that's golden!

Originally Posted by Big Andy

From my experience, most people have no idea how any industry works.

Fun fact: there was a time in the 90ies when some people here believed that people in the USA just know more about the way businesses work, because obviously you study that at school or something!

Originally Posted by AsenRG

OK, imagine me, or anyone else you think can pull that off, choosing a goal that can be achieved by hurting some people, and then doing so. They can't sue me, can't attack me directly, the Ndalu clan isn't taking an order on me.
What is the retaliation going to be?

I know that it wasn't nearly as funny to you, Uncle...but really, that's golden!

Sorry; I can't get my head around the notion. I suppose one could send in the legion and wipe them out, but I would not want to be the one giving that order.

In retrospect, it was absurdly funny - if you didn't have to live through it, of course. It cost me $800 in legal fees, the destruction of my decade-old game group, and several thirty- and forty-year friendships. I'm still having to deal with the aftermath of this nonsense.

The biggest losers is the whole affair have been gamers and Tekumel fans in general, but then that didn't seem to matter much to these people.

So it goes. Live and learn.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

They are the Clan of the Striding Incantation, and they do the little (and presumably magical) puppets that can be see at very high-class parties in the major cities. The puppets act out epic tales and funny comedies, and while a puppeteer is present, they never touch or manipulate the puppets in any physical way. It is considered a huge mark of high social status to get them to come and perform at one's party; they do not accept casual invitations, and you really do have to 'be somebody' and of a very good and respectable clan to have them even reply to you. They will do public performances, on very high holidays, and people will come for hundreds of miles to see the puppets perform. Nobody knows how they do any of this; it's an ancient secret of the clan. There is a faint aura of sorcery around after one of their performances, but that's all anyone knows. For that matter, nobody knows what gods they worship, either; they are very private, and very secretive.

Unique amongst clans, their clan colors are the Engsvanyali imperial white and gold, with trims in regional colors - but no deity colors that anyone knows about. Howard Fielding did a wonderful set of a puppeteer, puppets, and delighted children by the way.

They are considered to be inviolate, as they were a feature of the Priest-Kings court on Ganga, and nobody with any brains treats them rudely or improperly. They are a very tiny clan, but have very powerful friends at all levels of society. Messing with them is usually considered to be a huge insult to society as a whole, and society tends to react very badly to the insult.

When I was Governor of Hekellu, we had an incident of this sort, and I simply dropped by the offender's clan house with my guards and the local heads of the Black Y Society and Ndalu Clans. The problem was dealt with in short order, and the offender was last seen heading for Pechano to help you fight the Ssu. I think they might have given him a dagger, too, but he certainly left town in a very real hurry...

Uncle,

Greetings. Could you expand a bit on the details of the incident when you were governor of Hekellu? Would you have any other information not already give about Striding Incantation? There is only a paragraph about them in the sourcebook...Do they get along with the Society of the Hands that are not Seen? I found your commentary on SI intriguing. Most of the pulp stories I've read about puppets have very sinister outcomes. As far as their secrecy goes are there any rumors that people whisper about them in hushed conversation? Did The Professor ever give any hints as to which god or gods they worship? Or anything else interesting about these clans? Do you have any suspicions of your own about them?

Thanks,

H:0)

PS Not Human...androids...!?!?!...The plot thickens. I missed a bit of the conversation.

Originally Posted by Big Andy

From my experience, most people have no idea how any industry works. Ask just about anyone what they think the profit margin of the company they work for is. The numbers you get will be so high as to boggle the mind. Or the people who think that because their company sold Big Number X worth of goods this week that the company is rolling in cash, like it is all profit. How many game stores or comic stores or any other "hobby" stores have we all seen that opened with big dreams and closed when reality hit. Most folks just don't realize how much work goes into a business and think a good idea is enough.

I am no smooth talker, but I am pretty sure that I would talk much faster if ever I got to visit. May not be coherent or complete sentences, probably more like- Wow is that... Oh man, I saw the pictures you posted of... Holy shit, that is way cooler in person. The idiot part I have covered in spades!

A question spawned by another thread, the one about gods in a setting. There was mention of Greek Mythology and all the various demi-gods. Did/do any of the gods of Tekumel ever mate with humans? If so, what are their offspring like? Hnalla ever appear as golden rain to pick up girls or Sarku ever trick some lady into eating some pomegranate seeds?

Agreed; the history of Tekumel publishing is strewn with the remains of people who thought that they could do it better then I could. We've seen how well it's worked, over the past decades.

I'm sure you would, and that's not an issue for me; you're welcome to visit anytime, as are the other people on this thread. Mind you, I do screen potential visitors, to sort the bad from the good and keep the riff-raff out.

Nope. Nothing we ever heard about, or read about. Phil's 'gods' just didn't care enough about us - we were toys in the sandbox and pretty much nothing else.