Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Neshm hiKumala

Could you talk more about what makes the magic in War of Wizards more Tekumelani? How is it different from later incarnations?

Also, somewhat related, which system do you think gives the best sense of what Tekumelani magic is like?

"War of Wizards" is the first clear statement by Phil on how he thought magic would work in his world. It is very 'Vancian', which makes sense as Phil was a good friend of Jack Vance - Phil did the first map of the Dying Earth for him, back in the late 1940s/ early 1950s. It is very rich and nuanced, with lots of spells with names redolent of Tekumel. EPT's spell lists, on the other hand, are very short, laconic, and almost perfunctory; they were done in the 'Arnesonian-Gygaxian' style, as Gary wanted EPT to be as compatible as possible to D&D. Phil went back to his original conception with S&G /"Gardasiyal", with recondite spell lists and effects dependent on the skill and ability of the sorcerer. "Bethorm" builds on this, and is the direct descendent of S&G in this as it recaptitulates what Phil did in S&G.

"Ebon Bindings" falls outside this line of development, as it is the equivalent of the unpublished M-series spells that lie beyond the top of the published spell lists in S&G. It's the higher level stuff, not normally seen in the setting or in Phil's game play.

The line of thought in "War of Wizards", S&G/"Gardasiyal", "Bethorm" would be my preference; I use it myself in my games.

Originally Posted by CRKrueger

Dungeon Crawl Classics, an OSR game by Goodman Games. As Asen mentioned, while it includes some newer D&D aspects, it is very old school in certain respects, like alignment being Law/Chaos, limited classes, race as class for demihumans, etc...

Great! Thank you both!

I will be off-line until sometime tomorrow; I am appearing as an exhibit at 'Dave Arneson Day' today at The Source Comics and Games, sitting in front of one of my Skyilne displays and answering questions about Dave and the early days of gaming here in the Twin Cities. I will take lots of pictures, and report back on the mayhem...

Have fun.

When you get back...

Question about clans.
If a higher status clan is petitioned for help by a lower status clan, is the petition for help itself honoring the higher clan, acknowledging their ability/strength, etc?
If a clan finds itself able to help many lower clans and gather influence/favors, etc... can that raise the higher clan's status? Clan A and Clan B start off roughly equal, but Clan B turns out to be one successfully petitioned when needed for aid/favors, etc, can it be effectively higher status than Clan A simply because everyone turns to Clan B when they need a higher class clan?

The reason I'm asking is that it seems a clan that can't rise above it's equals through traditional political or economic means might do so through it's control of unconventional assets (ie. adventurers/PCs) who can act as troubleshooters and Get Things Done, kinda sorta like the way the Mafia or Yakuza got started, maybe not illegal, but just able to help in different ways.

Originally Posted by CRKrueger

Have fun.

When you get back...

Question about clans.
If a higher status clan is petitioned for help by a lower status clan, is the petition for help itself honoring the higher clan, acknowledging their ability/strength, etc?
If a clan finds itself able to help many lower clans and gather influence/favors, etc... can that raise the higher clan's status? Clan A and Clan B start off roughly equal, but Clan B turns out to be one successfully petitioned when needed for aid/favors, etc, can it be effectively higher status than Clan A simply because everyone turns to Clan B when they need a higher class clan?

The reason I'm asking is that it seems a clan that can't rise above it's equals through traditional political or economic means might do so through it's control of unconventional assets (ie. adventurers/PCs) who can act as troubleshooters and Get Things Done, kinda sorta like the way the Mafia or Yakuza got started, maybe not illegal, but just able to help in different ways.

Thank you! I did - quick report on my blog, with more to follow.

Yes, to both questions. Clans that have a reputation for being 'able to deliver the goods' will enjoy a better reputation, and will over time gain a higher status in society because of that. The Tekumelyani are nothing if not pragmatic; I can think of a number of very ancient and noble clans who are supposedly very high status, but nobody much deals with them because they are just not very effective. (Like the Court Nobles under the Shogunate.) They do get invited to social events, to lend a patina of nobility to the affair, but they are not the people you call when you need a favor or something done.

Originally Posted by Big Andy

First, enjoy being an exhibit!

Second, what are the Crystal Claw and the Silver Butterfly? What did they do? Where were they found? Were you part of their acquisition and use? Came across them in Prince of Skulls.

Thank you! I did!

This was after my time with Phil; all I know is what you do. I'd suggest the Blue Room Archive, as this was the the time that this had gotten started and was really rolling.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Funny.I just finished reading PoS a few weeks ago. I was going to email Chirine with some questions. On pg 109, I made note of those very items, as well as a certain Arumel...Anyhow, since you are doing it here, I guess I will too. So Uncle, how did your adventures in that part of Tekumel relate to the happenings in PoS? Thanks.

H:0)

No connection at all; this was the later (1990s) group of players. (We were 1976 to 1988-1990.) No data, sorry; this period of Phil's campaign is very poorly documented.