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Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

  1. #4341
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    You're welcome; sorry about the delay.

    Phil loved to put this kind of very clever in-jokes into his work. For example: The name of the ruling dynasty in Tsolyanu? Tlakotani, of course. The in-joke, from Phil the linguist:

    *Tlatoani (Classical Nahuatl: tlahtoāni [t͡ɬaʔtoˈaːni], "one who speaks, ruler" plural tlahtohqueh [t͡ɬaʔˈtoʔkeʔ]) is the Classical Nahuatl term for the ruler of an altepetl, a pre-Hispanic state. It may be translated into English as "king"." - Wikipedia

    Phil would lay these little gags with great glee, and then wait for us to get them patiently - sometimes for years. The more you know, the funnier it gets...

    EDIT: Forgot to add; yes, I'm looking forward to seeing what she comes up with as well; we had a chance to exchange e-mails on the subject.
    I wonder if the Tlakotani/ Tlatoani thing was ever a "joke" really. I imagine it as being like "Sakbe" and "Kheshchal". Just a teenaged Phil Barker drawing on Mesoamerica as inspiration for his own fantasy world

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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    For Big Andy...

    Attachment 339
    Sweet!

  3. #4343
    What about my Member? Shemek hiTankolel's Avatar
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    Chirine,

    One thing I was wondering about is the local fauna of Tekumel. We have listings of the exotic species and such, but what about more mundane items like frogs, rats, mice, snakes, scorpions, mosquitoes, dragon flies, and other Terran bugs? Did these things make it to Tekumel with the Human settlers, or are there other non-Terran equivalents that Phil used?

    Shemek
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain

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    What about my Member? Shemek hiTankolel's Avatar
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    I was Tekumel.com recently and I came across this editorial from The Eye of All-Seeing Wonder (e-mag), Issue 6, Winter 1996. It's quite a long piece but I would like to put it out here and hopefully generate some discussion. Twenty years have passed since he (Steve Foster) wrote this. Do you think that his argument is valid?

    On the Death of T�kumel

    Your editor, in his final Issue, makes a plea to save T�kumel

    "It’s not often that you get the opportunity to do things over; to make good the mistakes you’ve made in the past. I often think that’s because we often don’t realise that the mistake has been made, or we are not willing to admit to it because of the investment we’ve already made in the mistake itself. Maybe it needs someone to come along and say, "Hey, I think you’re on the wrong track!" I intend to do that for T�kumel, whether my opinion is welcome or not. It’s the prerogative of an editor writing his last Issue.

    I’ve been playing on T�kumel for 20 years now since, on a dull June afternoon, I ventured into Nyelmu’s garden with a group of fellow adventurers who were hell bent on internecine strife. We spent nearly 6 hours battling each other at a T-junction. After that I became Ghulfang, who wielded the black scimitar Thanaphon; Qolyemu, who became something other human; Purudesh; Ahanbasrim; Kanmi’yel, who became two separate Nl�ss; Khepfrish, the archer who wounded Mirusiya during the civil war; Yaksibi the lawyer; Ss�dussanu, the hired thug; Zaklengu, the gigantic freak; Shorun and many others. All-in-all it’s been a fun 20 years, but the good times look like they’re coming to an end.

    They’re coming to an end because T�kumel is dying. Yes, there is a core of devoted fans amongst whom I number myself, but the number isn’t growing too fast. Most of the players I know are over 30 and many are very close to the big 4-0. New players appear now and again, but I don’t hear too many stories about the good Professor’s yacht or his private Lear jet, so I guess they’re not appearing in vast numbers. I don’t think there are enough new players coming along even to maintain a critical mass and without that the end of T�kumel is only a matter of time.

    The problem, you see, is the fixation that the RPG industry has on rules. You can’t sell a new game without rules. You can’t sell an old game without changing the rules trivially so that you can call then "advanced" or "new" or "realistic". T�kumel has suffered from this more than any game world. The original EPT rules weren’t the greatest, but they worked well enough for the time. Swords and Glory were a vast improvement, but you still needed to interpret them to make scenarios work and to get around little inconsistencies. GURPS T�kumel was a good idea, but you still needed to keep your wits about you to stop rules Issues from becoming scenario Issues. Gard�siyal, leaving aside my well known opinion of the production quality, was OK but no improvement over S&G. Now, if you stand back, you can see the problem: Too much effort wasted on the rules and not enough on the world.

    It’s an interesting point that comes clear with hindsight. Even while all these different game systems were being published, some player groups were still producing their own. Yet no-one has rewritten the source book. They all want to keep the setting faithful to "real" T�kumel. After all, it’s the painstaking detail, the exotic world, the coherence and vision that attract most people to T�kumel. Being Tsoly�ni is a real role-player’s challenge, especially for those of us brought up in an egalitarian Western society. There’s a mythology and a history that actually make sense, not just some bastardised, third-class Middle Earth. There’s a language primer that got even me interested in linguistics. There are even two half-way decent novels.

    So, do I think saying "kill the rules, keep the world" will bring T�kumel role-playing back to where it should be? No. I still think it should be done, though. I think Gard�siyal, Swords and Glory, Adventures on T�kumel, whatever else. should be let quietly slip away, but unfortunately that’s only half the solution. There’s still the problem of getting that critical mass of new players. That’s not easy to do and I think it can only be done with a sacrifice. It’s a sacrifice that I don’t think will be popular in some quarters and I have the most selfish reason of all for proposing it. In 20 years time, I still want to be able to sell my little boat in Jak�lla harbour and head off for a life of adventure.

    I guess the idea that inspired me was the Browser Wars. If you’re not into computers that mightn’t mean anything to you, so I’ll explain it. Two multi-billion dollar corporations, Microsoft and Netscape, are fighting for market share by giving stuff away for free. They’re happy because they know you’ll be so impressed with the product that you’ll want to actually pay for some of their other stuff. You’re happy because you got some first-rate software for free (even if it is only yet another "beta"). I think the same thing has to happen to T�kumel. Put part (not all) of it into the public domain or license it for free. Put the Source Book onto the Internet. Encourage new players to read it and use it. It sounds weird, but maybe then there’ll be ten thousand or a hundred thousand people who prefer T�kumel to any other gaming world, who may actually pay for follow-up material from the Professor himself.

    Maybe you’re sceptical. Maybe you think this is doing a disservice to Phil. Maybe you think it’s none of my business. Maybe you think I have some ulterior motive. All I can do is point out the facts. If the strategy hasn’t worked for the last 20 years it’s not going to suddenly start working now. Without change, T�kumel is dead."


    Shemek
    Last edited by Shemek hiTankolel; 09-06-2016 at 03:49 PM. Reason: grammar
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain

  5. #4345
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    I think a 20-24 page primer would do nicely. Follow that up with the hard data from S&G and Mitlaniyal for the geography, cultures, and the supernatural. You could probably make 5-6 good sourcebooks out of that data alone. For critters, adapting the old bestiary and simply referencing check points (strong as orc, ogre, owlbear, &c.) would be sufficient.

    With a properly planned kickstarter, you could do well enough to make your money back, and perhaps a profit as well.

  6. #4346
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    well, you can't argue with Stephen Foster's prognosis. Twenty years on, Tekumel may not be dead, but it is about as "alive" as he imagined it would be.

    His diagnosis? I think he captured some of the problems, obviously there were and are more.

    Then the prescription. I don 't know that giving away content will raise Tekumel from the grave, but I do believe it is part of a healthy lifestyle, so I am very sympathetic to his suggestion!

    I do think Tekumel needs a big, meaningful free giveaway to build market share. Where I disagree is that the big free giveaway should be the Sourcebook. I just don't think it is a big hook. The Sourcebook is the net that lands you when you are already hooked, but I don't think it is the thing that gets you to bite in the first place.

    I'm not sure a primer is either. People have been debating (and circulating drafts of) the "perfect Tekumel primer" for 20 years or more. Presumably as a way to give away free content without giving away too much. And I think a brief factsheet is a great thing to have, especially for conventions, but I don't think it is any way to build wide appeal for a product that doesnt have that yet.

    No, the giveaway has to be bigger than that. It has to be a complete, but very basic game with all the fluff of original EPT, and enough allusions to the vast detail to make people feel they got something real for free, but make them hungry for more. Tekumel Basic. My opinion.

  7. #4347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel View Post
    Chirine,

    Was Captain Harchar a Tsolyani, or a barbarian in a boat who landed in Jakalla from some unknown land?

    Shemek.
    He's a Tsolyani, even though the Imperium hates the idea, and a member of the Blazoned Sail clan of Jakalla, which would really prefer that you not mention that to people. He's the Sable Hmelu of the clan, and his officers are just as disowned by their clans as he is. I forget his lineage; I'd have to look it up, but I think it's hi Virshenya. The night Dave rolled up this lot was One Of Those Evenings...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrugga View Post
    Uncle,

    What type of musical instrument is a miyalun? I found some references to it in a few places. No description. Nothing in the sourcebook. The index I have was no help...

    Thank you,

    H:0)
    Say the word aloud, and you'll hear Phil laughing as you get the joke. Miyalun, violin...

    This one came after we heard a koto player doing Mozart...

  9. #4349
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    Well my silly opinion for what it is worth is to give away stand alone adventures with pre-made characters.
    If they are good enough, people will want more and will want to create their own characters.
    People are always looking for fun adventures, after a few they will be vested.

    You can then sell what is needed for people to make their own.
    How you divide up what to sell and for how much I leave to professionals.

    I don't doubt being compatible with D20 would help though I personally would prefer Savage Worlds.
    =

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirunel View Post
    I wonder if the Tlakotani/ Tlatoani thing was ever a "joke" really. I imagine it as being like "Sakbe" and "Kheshchal". Just a teenaged Phil Barker drawing on Mesoamerica as inspiration for his own fantasy world
    Well, that was a joke in terms of Phil's sense of humor. He loved linguistic in-jokes like this; to us midwest illiterates, they weren't 'jokes' in the sense that we knew the word. Phil was a little older when he learned Nahuatl; he got his first degree in Anthropology, and then switched to Languages for his doctorate.

    As Gronan has remarked, Phil's sense of humor was very different from ours.

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