Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

*snip*

What was mesmerizing them was that that about a third of their force was injured or wounded, and effectively non-combatants. They also had two people mounted on oxen, which caused me to simply stare in astonishment; oxen are both slow and hard to care for, and they should have had a barbeque. So anyway, I set them up with a van (lights), a center for a reserve (heavies and mediums), the main body of 'baggage' and then two flanking rear guards (lights) to cover the baggage. All very simple cavalry tactics when moving in a steppe, like we were; it's open and flat, so I did what several historical commanders actually did. All through this, as it was getting to be dawn local time, my lights continued to make a lot of noise and demonstrations off at the edge of their vision. I'd already pre-set my battle plan, so all the GM had to do was set the thing in motion - I would be functioning as a dice tower, more then anything else.

My giving them my best advice seemed to precipitate a discussion about negotiation; the biggest issue seemed to be that the players assumed that all my bandits were out to do was kill them off - which, you'll remember, was what they did to my people. After some time spent by my continually suggesting (with the GM's permission, of course) that they needed to think outside the box, they finally sent out a messenger to talk to us. I was delighted - after we came to a nicely profitable agreement for me and the lads, I let them go on their way...

-a Victorian cavalry officer would have instantly recognized what I was doing, and so would have Richard I (the Arsuf reference).

*snip* .

Sounds like you had a glorious weekend. What I find truly amazing, even though I really shouldn't by now, is the fact that basic cavalry, or infantry, tactics are looked upon as some type of voodoo magic by so many people involved in RPG's. It's funny when you apply real world methodology to "make-believe" and what do you know it actually works!

This has become a challenge in my game of late. I don't know what's happened but my players have been making real bone headed decisions based on assumptions and little or no analysis what so ever. I think I need to mix up the group and have some newbies augment the grognards.

As would an armoured officer.


Shemek

The problem is that the non-wargamers learned their "tactics" from D&D 3rd edition, which copies heavily from online games, most especially "World of Warcraft." To them, "tactics" means "I run up to the enemy and then at the proper moment use my Ultimate Testicle Crush maneuver."

Honestly, such things as "Open order against an area weapon and close order against melee" is exotic and esoteric for these people. This is reinforced by a game system where you are fighting "one tough enemy" rather than organized forces.

There is one very experienced wargamer in that group, but he's not a strong personality and is reluctant to simply give orders.

Also, the "the bandits are out to kill us" is a mindset common among non-wargamers, especially those who play a lot of computer games; in the vast majority of computer games the AI is designed so that any opponent IS simply trying to kill you.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

The problem is that the non-wargamers learned their "tactics" from D&D 3rd edition, which copies heavily from online games, most especially "World of Warcraft." To them, "tactics" means "I run up to the enemy and then at the proper moment use my Ultimate Testicle Crush maneuver."

Honestly, such things as "Open order against an area weapon and close order against melee" is exotic and esoteric for these people. This is reinforced by a game system where you are fighting "one tough enemy" rather than organized forces.

There is one very experienced wargamer in that group, but he's not a strong personality and is reluctant to simply give orders.

"Ultimate Testicle Crush Manuever" . I think, as usual Glorious General, you've gotten to the meat of the problem. Many, (perhaps most?) gamers of a certain vintage either cut their teeth on wargaming or played wargames at one point. Within my immediate circle not only did we play D&D, but BTech, ASL, and almost every other wargame that Avalon Hill and GDW made. This gave us alternatives that could be employed when playing whatever the game was. We were brutal, often replaying or refighting a particular part of a battle multiple times if we wanted to employ a different strategy or test a different hypothesis.
This is why I get frustrated with the "veterans" in my gaming group. They should know better, but have fallen into the habit of thinking that because I've done something a certain way in the past I will continue to do so in the future. The only thing that they should take as a given is: if they encounter Ssu they will be attacked.


Shemek

Congratulations, Uncle! You did the best that could be expected.
Did you offer them to pay blood money and then go on a quest?

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

The problem is that the non-wargamers learned their "tactics" from D&D 3rd edition, which copies heavily from online games, most especially "World of Warcraft." To them, "tactics" means "I run up to the enemy and then at the proper moment use my Ultimate Testicle Crush maneuver."

Word.
Though some old schoolers are as bad or worse. I think I did tell in thisthread about the player in an old school game who told me that there's no tactics in D&D, because everyone is rushing the enemy?

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Also, the "the bandits are out to kill us" is a mindset common among non-wargamers, especially those who play a lot of computer games; in the vast majority of computer games the AI is designed so that any opponent IS simply trying to kill you.

I find this so common among newer gamers now as to think of it as the default. When I had some younger gamers interested in my game, I made sure they understood that: there's no threat meter; there's no color code that let's you know that an enemy is too strong for you; there will be times when you are faced with an enemy you are not supposed to attack, much less insult; that problem-solving, negotiation, bribery, hiring help, and running are often valid responses to an encounter. Also, there's no three lives or respawn point. And sometimes I have to remind veteran players as well.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

For any interested, there is a more "modern" take on Tekumel PbP gaming here:
Emerald Sphere of Sighs.

I assume a more "modern" take as the person running it said:
[OCC: I used Tsolyani here even though Engsvanyali would be more appropriate--later posts will include some Engsvanyali elements as I become proficient in its formulations]

While I could be wrong, I don't remember back when it was "new" any concern with using the correct "in character" language while playing.
=

I think this attitude is what Chirine refers to as the "Tekumel is art" mind set. Looks like it was an interesting campaign.

Shemek.