Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Hrugga

A hundred Thank yous great Lord!!! Yes!!! I see what you mean. I will make sure when I pass through, that I spend my kaitars on anything but my own piece of Pechano...!!!

H;0)

You're very welcome! Good idea. Even though the Pechani are stereotypically seen as overly serious and somewhat crude, hare-brained rustics by many of their "more sophisticated" neighbours I think that a lot of this is an act they put on to scam unwary foreigners. Just ask the Salarvyani how much they like doing business in Mechaneno or Teshkoa. People locked in perpetual warfare with an enemy determined to exterminate them don't usually worry about the "frivolities" and niceties associated with more peaceful lands.

Shemek.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I saw the original posts from Hrugga and you and I was curious if Phil had any thing to say on the subject. According to what he posted on the Blue Room he had a lot more to say, but I am not sure if he ever got around to writing it down. One more thing that I forgot to mention is according to Phil the "stench of the undead" seems to be quite a "powerful" aroma.

Shemek

Sadly, I don't think he did; there were a lot of subjects that he'd mentioned that he'd wanted to cover, over the years, but time just caught up with him

Yep; they do stink to high heaven which was often the only warning we had of their being just around the corner.

Back in after today's action set in the aftermath of Trafalgar; great game, but I hit my stamina limit late in the afternoon. So, now I know just how far I can push myself; no more back-to-back days for me, I guess...

Chirine,

My game has been chugging along full speed, and I've decided to introduce some non-humans into mix. I went on my favourite resource looking for some info on the Pe Choi and I found this great post from Phil. I figured I would share it here. Is there any more that you can add to what the kindly professor has said?


"... The Tsolyani consider the Pe Choi of Do Chaka to be Tsolyani citizens. They are ruled and taxed and treated much like anybody else in the Empire. The Pe Choi are smart enough to keep quiet and not make waves; the Tsolyani, in turn, are smart enough not to press too hard. The "wild" Pe Choi of the inner Chakan forests are fearsome fighters: able to strike, raid, loot, and return to their jungle fastnesses quickly. There has been a sort of understanding between the humans and this species that goes back millennia. The Pachi Lei, on the other hand, are considered regular citizens, who are treated identically with human citizens. The Mu'ugalavyani consider their Pe Choi to be regular citizens of a slightly lower quality than humans, and they thus do not appoint them to higher posts of government, etc. The Swamp Folk, on the other hand, are used by the Mu'ugalavyani in their navy and hence obtain higher positions and pay. The Pygmy Folk of Yan Kor consider themselves an autonomous enclave; they treat their human neighbours with aloof politeness and vice-versa. The Tinaliya in Livyanu are similar: their underground cities are almost completely free of Livyani control, which appeals to the Livyani too. The new conquerors after the Plague (i.e. the Mu'ugalavyani) have not had time or inclination yet to oppress the little Tinaliya, but this will almost certainly occur -- the Muu'ugalavyani are officious and blind when it comes to intercultural, interracial, inter-whatever, sensitivity.

The Ahoggya are intractable. They obey human laws when in human cities, and they remain aloof from human affairs in their own lands (right up to completely ignoring humans among them -- not even offering a bowl of water to a thirsty human visitor, but just letting the poor fellow find it for himself!). Their stilt-villages are independent even from each other, and the Salarvyani let them be.

The Shen are much more interested in political structures: they have their own governments in Shenyu, Mmatugual, and the little northern Shen states. They treat humans as foreigners who must go through considerable bureaucracy to achieve anything, and they are clever at trading and commerce. Their laws are so confusing to humans that even the Tsolyani legate in Ssorva has to ask for help in interpreting their edicts.

The inimicals (Ssu, Hluss, Hlutrgu, Shunned Ones, etc.) are treated as foes wherever they are found. Their special enclaves are theirs only because they fight ferociously to defend them, and their lands are not important enough for any of their neighbours to be willing to mount the sort of massive military force it would take to expunge them permanently from Tekumel. The Ssu, for one thing, dwell in undergorund cities where there are ancient tubeway car tunnels connecting these once-human sites to other places on Tekumel. Millennia ago the humans of Pechano and Salarvya managed to destroy the Ssu capital of Ssuganar, but the Ssu simply retreated grimly into their tunnels and nobody dared follow them. They are a very patient species."

Shemek.

Chirine,

I found this paragraph on the Blue Room as well.


'' I am dubious about fighting military campaigns on Tekumel with wargame rules. This is fine for isolated games or for "just suppose" games, but these cannot be taken as "authentic" Tekumel history without the likelihood of serious damage to Tekumel's "real" history. A gang of talented players can often beat a single, helpless referee (me -- the worst dice roller in the world!), and next thing you know the Mu'ugalavyani lose when they actually win, and the Tsolyani are sacking Ssa'atis! The players take a god-like "wargamers' viewpoint" of a battle, see everything, know everything, and cleverly use the rules to "play chess." I don't mind this, as long as it is not taken as "real Tekumelani history." I recall one wargame in which three very skilled gamers took a contingent of low-class Mu'ugalavyani troops and beat the kilts off the First Legion of Ever-Present Glory (me) by simply dancing all around and "playing rules" instead of simulating a real conflict. I think they lost 3 casualties, while I lost over 400 men! A wargamer (read: chess-player) I am admittedly not!''


I was wondering:

1. what do you think of Phil's take on wargame rules and Tekumel.
2. if you knew anything about the battle Phil was describing.
3. was he in fact 'the worst dice roller in the world?''

Shemek

I can answer a little bit. First, wargamers always blame dice, but in the long run that's not true.

Second, I don't know what battle this was, but there were some tactics Phil just didn't know how to handle; cf. my use of a blitzkrieg attack at 3rd Mar.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

My game has been chugging along full speed, and I've decided to introduce some non-humans into mix. I went on my favourite resource looking for some info on the Pe Choi and I found this great post from Phil. I figured I would share it here. Is there any more that you can add to what the kindly professor has said?

On a macro level, no; this is a very accurate summary of the situation after the Livyani - Mu'uglavyani war. On a micro level, maybe, if you have more specific things in mind. I could do several thousand words on a macro level, none of which would be any better then what Phil said.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,
I was wondering:

1. what do you think of Phil's take on wargame rules and Tekumel.
2. if you knew anything about the battle Phil was describing.
3. was he in fact 'the worst dice roller in the world?''

Shemek

1. It's accurate. Phil didn't like trying to adapt historical rules to Tekumel; it never seemed to 'gel'. Which is why we wrote "Qadardlikoi"; he was an active participant in writing and play-testing the thing. It's what we used for all of our fights in his campaign. His biggest issue were the rules lawyers from the Monday group and from the Little Tin; in fairness, WRG 6th was a rules lawyer's dream. He liked my rules so much that he insisted on their being copyrighted in my name, and even paid the $40 fee out of his own pocket. The Monday group didn't like it; 'too simple', they said, as the rules do not allow for clever rules lawyering and instead require tactics to win battles.

2. It was a 'one-off' played in the middle of 1975. Phil vs. what became the Monday group; not connected with the RPG campaign.

3. No. Far from it. He was a very good opponent, especially in any game that favored historical simulation over nit-picking rules.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I can answer a little bit. First, wargamers always blame dice, but in the long run that's not true.

Second, I don't know what battle this was, but there were some tactics Phil just didn't know how to handle; cf. my use of a blitzkrieg attack at 3rd Mar.

This was before your medal; they were trying out Gary Rudolph's WRG 6th modifications.