Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Well, at least it's practical enough for playing RPGs, which seldom surpass small teams. I suspect it might not work for a wargame if I was to face a dedicated wargamer...
Alas, I know of no online forums for wargame fights, so it's unlikely I'd get to test myself in this area any time soon.

Could be; I've found that it's relatively easy to apply the principles of small-unit tactics to larger conflicts.

That's kind of surprising, to me...

From Big Andy:
OK everybody used to start off as barbarians from Haida Pakala that had no understanding of Tsolyanu culture or how everybody fits, etc., which was how the Good Professor introduced concepts that showed how Tekumel wasn't like other games. How similar is Haida Pakala like "standard" fantasy worlds? I mean, if the folks coming of the boat in Jakalla were so out of place by acting more like standard gamers, would standard gamers fit in better in Haida Pakala?

Possibly; Haida Pakalla is a nasty place, even by Tekumelyani standards. Murder, treachery, and betrayal are as common as breathing; it was, in short, exactly the kind of place where the original group of Phil's players would have and could have thrived. It's a very good simulation of the old Fifth Precinct wargaming group here in the Twin Cities in the middle to late 1970s, with much the same sort of 'uncivilized' social activity. Ask Gronan what they were like. 'Murderhobos', as PCs are sometimes referred to, would be considered normal upstanding citizens of Haida Pakalla.

As for 'standard gamers' fitting in, I would hope that they would not; Gary Fine got a whole book ("Shared Fantasy") out of the pretty over-the-top goings on at what he calls the 'Golden Brigade' group. I like to think of our old CSA group as the civilization of the Five Empires, and the Fifth Precinct as Haida Pakalla; the kind of gamers who would do well in Haida Pakalla - and I have met more then a few of them, over the years - would not be the kind of people I would want to game with.

Gronan? Comments?

This one is a minor question.
Let's say you are put in charge of a fief. I assume you get a promotion within the clan but your clan leaders still boss you around with regard to clan stuff. Or are you elevated to a clan leader while you are running the fief so the clan can get the most benefit from the relationship?

Yes, your status within the clan would be elevated; you might be made a clan elder, if it was a smaller and poorer clan, but higher status and wealthier noble clans would assume that they'd get the fief simply as their due. A lot depends on the fief; a small two-hex fief like Tu'umnra or Ferenara is not going to put you at the top of the clan - they'll give you their advice and support, but not a seat in the clan councils - but a major fief like my City-of and Province-of Hekallu dual fief (as well as being Warden of the Chaigari Marches) got me a high status clan (Iron Helm), a title (I became a Lord), and a pretty listened-to voice in both my old clan of Eye of Flame and in my new one.

And the clan assumes that they will benefit from your position; the clan will expect to get good contracts, positions, and trade opportunities (if they do that kind of thing) due to your position of influence.

Does this help, at all?

When I washed ashore on Jakalla harbor strand in a leaky rowboat, I was "a barbarian from an uncivilized continent far to the south." I don't think I even heard the name of Heida Pakalla for some years. And had no desire to return, since the game as presented was about exploring the Five Empires.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Could be; I've found that it's relatively easy to apply the principles of small-unit tactics to larger conflicts.

That's kind of surprising, to me...

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Power-Sec.../dp/0873644093
This book argues basically that single-man tactics, small-units and army-level tactics are the same, and so is business. I was surprised when I first read it, but most of it made sense, assuming one has mastered the basics of both fields.

I don't think I've ever visited or had PCs visit Haida Pakalla, so I'll have to put it on my to do list!

Uncle,

I was wondering about medicine within the five kingdoms. I know that some magic is employed in healing in some cases. What about "non-magic" medicine? At what level of advancement is medicine in your time? Any details such as surgery or such would be helpful. I know Harsan's wife has skill with herbs and such. In general what could one expect...Thanks.

H:0)

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

When I washed ashore on Jakalla harbor strand in a leaky rowboat, I was "a barbarian from an uncivilized continent far to the south." I don't think I even heard the name of Heida Pakalla for some years. And had no desire to return, since the game as presented was about exploring the Five Empires.

Yep; Phil hadn't named Haida Pakalla yet, as the EPT maps didn't cover that part of the world in 1975. He formally named the area when he did the next two maps - the EPT maps were 1 and 2 of the S&G set - which took us out east quite a ways on maps 3 and 4. There is also a map '0', out to the west of map 1, which covers the Tane area and the far west of Mu'uglavya.

The 'Southern Continent' - it's a great place to be from!

Originally Posted by AsenRG

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Power-Sec.../dp/0873644093
This book argues basically that single-man tactics, small-units and army-level tactics are the same, and so is business. I was surprised when I first read it, but most of it made sense, assuming one has mastered the basics of both fields.

I don't think I've ever visited or had PCs visit Haida Pakalla, so I'll have to put it on my to do list!

I'll look the book up.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Uncle,

I was wondering about medicine within the five kingdoms. I know that some magic is employed in healing in some cases. What about "non-magic" medicine? At what level of advancement is medicine in your time? Any details such as surgery or such would be helpful. I know Harsan's wife has skill with herbs and such. In general what could one expect...Thanks.

H:0)

'Regular' medicine is actually pretty good. Phil pegged it at about the level of the Greeks and Romans, with very good surgeons and decent apothecaries. There's a lot of good herbal and chemical treatments, as the physicians have had a very long time to practice on their patients. You will see a well-equipped physician with all sorts of fearsome instruments, as there is no real distinction between surgeons, and 'doctors'. Apothecaries are a separate discipline, though, and every good physician normally has an equally good apothecary as a partner. And you do get specialists for specialist treatments of specialized ailments, too.

Sorcery is not, as we found out with Prince Eselne's death, a cure-all for everything. Healing spells are usually very specific and used as treatments for very specific illnesses and injuries; Eselne probably would have lived with a week of 500cc of saline solution and some Ringer's lactate.

There is, I will modestly mention, an upcoming bit of medical humor in Book Six where the Legion's Chief Physician visits a badly injured Chirine; I manage to get nearly killed rescuing somebody from a burning building, and the day after sees Yours Truly getting a mass visit by the local medical association to see what they can do for me. (There is much humor, as Tinaliya are involved; they like to fix things, and have many, many solutions in search of problems to be solved.) You'll get a chance to see the leading edge of modern medical technology in action, with asides from the medical people about how regular visits to one's physicians are a vital part of a multi-phasic interdisciplinary approach to health care. (I'm also having a for-real cutter look the thing over, so I can get a real medical opinion on the subject.)

Does this help? Do you need something more specific?