Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Remember the time Phil insisted that you'd keep your helmet on when reporting to me... until you pointed out that the flame crest was tall enough to tear open the top of the tent over the entryway?

Good times, good times...

Yep. Come back with us now, to Those Thrilling Days Of Yesteryear in the old Thursday Night Group. The scene: Korumne's tent, near Castle Tilketl on the Northwest Frontier...

Jeff: "Er, Phil, it's a closed face helm."
Phil: "Well, protocol says you leave it on when reporting to your superior officer."
Jeff: "Okay, Phil; whatever you say."

Enter Chirine, stage left, and salutes.

Chirine: "Mwafful grndle niffle gwiddle, niddly!"
Korunme: "Say what, Chirine?"
Chirine: "Mwafful grndle niffle qwiddle, niddly!!!"
Korunme: "TAKE THAT DAMN HELMET OFF RIGHT NOW!!!"

Didn't let Phil live it down for the rest of the night, being young and cruel...

And Korunme issued his legion with open-faced helmets, too; take that, Phil!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

At this point I want to point out that Chirine "plays fair." That is, he'll (for instance) put an ambush someplace that will absolutely kill your asses if you blunder into it... but if you figure there's probably an ambush there and go around it, he will NOT relocate the ambush to make you hit it.

Well, yes. Is there any other way to play? I mean, we always assumed that the referee / GM was absolutely neutral, and intellectually honest. Yes, I would do my level best to kill you as I played the NPCs and monsters, but that's what they would do and is simply good role-playing.

Normally, I can exploit a party's weaknesses and dithering, and stay ahead of them by at least an hour of gaming. It's why I usually dread running RPGs at conventions - after over thirty years of this, it's kinda boring as the players make the same mistakes that I've seen a hundred times over.

These guys at Gary Con gave me nothing. Absolutely nothing. I had the fight of my gaming life with them, and I think I was able to stay maybe thirty seconds ahead of them the whole time. I came out of the game soaked in sweat, and completely exhausted.

It was wonderful!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

"The operative word, Mister Spock, is d-d-d-d-Death!"

Yep; I'd agree with that!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

The thing weighs about four pounds, looks really ornate, and is a pain in the butt to keep polished - ask his orderly...

It's gold, not silver or bronze. Shouldn't it only need dusting?

Originally Posted by Bren

It's gold, not silver or bronze. Shouldn't it only need dusting?

Ah, but it's all the enamel that needs to be kept bright.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Ah, but it's all the enamel that needs to be kept bright.

Clearly I need a picture.

Originally Posted by Bren

Clearly I need a picture.

To hear is to obey...

[IMG][/IMG]

The thing is solid gold, with bronze, copper, silver, and enameled inlay. Weighs a ton when worn, and makes a good breastplate.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

As I told Gronan of Simmerya, effectively I'm trying to reconstruct the original game from "Postcards".

When I run my fingerpainting version of EPT, I want to at least have as many broad strokes as possible within the lines of the original.

Having someone that played in the original and in a style that I expected for the setting, show me where those "lines" are, is very helpful.
I think someone that was in the original game as about as "authentic" as you can get for identifying what is "inside the lines".

Who knows, I may not be the only one that misses the simple pleasure of the old Sword & Planet stories.
Where things were black & white and Unknown!

Personally, I fail to associate Tekumel with Black and White morality. But it might be that way in your game.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Oh, right, gotcha.

Yeah, I'd agree with your way of looking at things. This is what the Glorious General and I keep muttering about - sometime in the early to middle 1990s, the way Tekumel was viewed really seemed to change. It stopped being the Swords and Planet world of adventures that we had grown up in, and became some sort of Serious Thing with all sorts of political overtones and political correctness.

There was a very strong tendency to 'Get It Right", and for 'Serious' 'Authenticity' to take over from 'just wing it'.

Phil wrote a lot about Tekumel, and then didn't use that material himself if it didn't suit the story arc or the plot line that he was following in the campaign. He was, first and foremost, a storyteller. and I miss that tremendously.

There is no 'Perfect Tekumel', no matter what some self-appointed expert might tell you; there is only the Tekumel of your dreams...

Or, for that matter, there's no Perfect Setting X, no matter what the setting.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yep. It's an agony to get through, and nearly impossible to map due to all the twists and turns. It took us the better part of six months of gaming to figure out that there was only one way and and out.

And each square of that ten to the inch is ten foot... :jaw-dropping:

There are some really big spaces in the thing - as well as the Throne of Death, in the Hall of Death, in the Palace of Death, on the Island of Death, in the middle of the River of Death, overlooked by the Bridge of Death, and you get there by the Boat of Death.

Notice a trend, here? Our Phil was real subtle, at times, and this wasn't one of them...

A trend? What do you mean? These names are all different, one is a Throne, another is a Bridge, surely it doesn't get more dissimilar than that!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

At this point I want to point out that Chirine "plays fair." That is, he'll (for instance) put an ambush someplace that will absolutely kill your asses if you blunder into it... but if you figure there's probably an ambush there and go around it, he will NOT relocate the ambush to make you hit it.

And for this he has my respect.
BTW, Gronan, wasn't "playing fair" assumed in those early days in the 70ies? Or is Chirine an outlier by always playing fair?

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Well, yes. Is there any other way to play? I mean, we always assumed that the referee / GM was absolutely neutral, and intellectually honest. Yes, I would do my level best to kill you as I played the NPCs and monsters, but that's what they would do and is simply good role-playing.

I almost envy you for being able to ask that!
Same question that I asked Gronan, really. Was this the assumed playstyle?
Because these days, "changing the location of the bandit ambush" is part of the Refereeing advice in some books. Apparently me refusing to do it means I suck at GMing, or at least I'm not interested in the storytelling aspect of it.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I almost envy you for being able to ask that!
Same question that I asked Gronan, really. Was this the assumed playstyle?
Because these days, "changing the location of the bandit ambush" is part of the Refereeing advice in some books. Apparently me refusing to do it means I suck at GMing, or at least I'm not interested in the storytelling aspect of it.

But... But... :jaw-dropping:

I mean no disrespect to anyone with the following...

What you describe verges on the incomprehensible to me. "Changing the location" is, at least to me cheating of a sort. It's my job as your GM to plan my strategy just as carefully as you plan yours - we're trying to outwit each other, more then anything else. I have always told my players that "the rules are fixed and immutable; I will not change them just to get my own way." To me, that's being dishonest with my players, and with myself.

And storytelling...

I'm astonished; Phil and I managed to tell some pretty interesting and fun stories in our time, and we did it by playing the parts of the NPCs and such for our players to interact with. From what I can tell, the kind of storytelling that we did is not the kind of storytelling that quite a few people are thinking of...

I am baffled, I confess...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

But... But... :jaw-dropping:

I mean no disrespect to anyone with the following...

What you describe verges on the incomprehensible to me. "Changing the location" is, at least to me cheating of a sort. It's my job as your GM to plan my strategy just as carefully as you plan yours - we're trying to outwit each other, more then anything else. I have always told my players that "the rules are fixed and immutable; I will not change them just to get my own way." To me, that's being dishonest with my players, and with myself.

Well, Chirine, I've told them pretty much the same, both in more and in less polite terms...
I guess I'm not the person to defend that stance. In fact, I just asked, because a few of them defended it with "that's something all GMs have been doing since there were GMs".
I figured that I'd better check, since I can't imagine how your playstyle would work if mixed with such tactics.

And storytelling...

I'm astonished; Phil and I managed to tell some pretty interesting and fun stories in our time, and we did it by playing the parts of the NPCs and such for our players to interact with. From what I can tell, the kind of storytelling that we did is not the kind of storytelling that quite a few people are thinking of...

I am baffled, I confess...

It's the difference between an emerging story that you write as you go, and one that you have written already. If you do the former, well, your style more or less emerges, with some changes due to mechanics and the goals of the players. If you do the latter, you need to avoid players' actions having consequences that can spoil your story.
I've done both (hey, I was taught first that "players should not be allowed to spoil the GM's story, when I ditched this approach I thought it's a new style). I can attest that while the stories might be similar, they just have a different "feel". I can also attest that the latter approach is more taxing on the GM.

In short, it's like the difference between pre-planned and emerging anything (or between kata and application, if you want).