Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

That looks amazing. I like the dings on the car's surface, it really adds character and gives it a worn look. After all, they are tens of thousands of years old! Next time I go to Home Depot or Lowe's I pick up some Borden's filler. I've never tried this one. I've used Elmer's and Lepage's before, but both were lacquer based, stinky, and hard to use. Kind of like Squadron's Green Stuff epoxy filler/putty. Thanks for the info.

Shemek

Thank you! The dings are all from the thing lying around for too long; the open-cell foam is cheap, but very fragile. I'll probably break down and get a new sphere and do it right away, so as to have a 'clean' one for contrast.

Squadron's 'Green Stuff' is actually styrene plastic in an acetone-based paste, which is why it's so smelly and death to any styrene foam. The blue and yellow epoxy ribbon that you knead into the green putty is actually very 'neutral' on things.

Happy to be of help!

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I'm not up with the current terminology at all. I've become the "old guy" over there. Man, when did that happen, and how did it happen so fast?? I don't understand the mindset of people who refute reliable sources simply because their accounts aren't what they think they should be. You were there, you gamed with all three of them, end of story! If you or the Glorious General can't speak with authority about Phil's games or Dave Arneson's games, or Gygax's games who can? To paraphrase Gronan: you can't cure stupid.

Shemek.

Neither am I, which is why I keep asking what some might think are dumb questions. I am, to be honest, just baffled by it all - and by the intensity of the discussions. I was up at the 'Free RPG Day' event at the local FLGS, after I dropped Second Daughter off at work, and was sort of bemused by it all. Didn't understand much of what I was hearing, but that's a measure of how much gaming has evolved over the decades.

Still drew a blank with 'Barsoom', though, when I asked people about a good set of RPG rules for the setting.

Originally Posted by David Johansen

I frequently have new GMs asking me how I can be so flexible and roll with what the players want. That's the secret of course. There's a world out there with great events in motion but how and if it impacts the players is really up to them.

Yes, exactly. I've had people ask me the same question - how can I possibly deal with all the chaos?

I dunno; I just do it.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Exactly. This is how I have always run my games.
Years ago, in my old game, the guys got banged up pretty bad, they wanted to train, do magical research, etc. All very valid and needed actions at the time. So they decided to lay low and hole up for about six weeks. No problem. We played out the training, research and what not. After a couple of weeks they started hearing rumours about strange events, in the East. Violent raids destroying whole villages, Ssu massing in unusually high numbers... Basically, although they were taking a break, the world was not. Their enemies fully exploited the party's inactivity, to their detriment.

Shemek.

Well, yeah; the world keeps moving along, no matter what the players might be doing at this moment in history. What they do, may affect what will happen, but they do have to keep up with the flow...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Also, love the tubeway car. As far as the surface blemishes, well, first off, see previous comment about all the nasty spores, mold, and fungus on Tekumel -- (can you say "mutated biological weapon"? Sure you can!) -- and secondly, we've established Ssu with blasters and Hlyss with lightning bringers... maybe that car has a colorful history!

(cue a few Millenium Falcon-style "scorch marks" here)

Given the number of times we had to fight our way back to the tubeway car, I'd be surprised if they didn't look all shot up. Think of all the repair droids that player-characters have been keeping in work all these centuries.

'Scorch marks'? Air brush time, then.

And a packet was in today's mail; ten packs plus reward figures from Mike Burns and the latest Dark Fable Indiegogo:

[ooops. wrong photo. will reload.]

Top to bottom, left to right:

Reward Figures, including Prophet of Set,
Temple Guards I, Cultists I with Set figure, Cultists I with Cultist figure, Heroes, Temple Guards II,
Cultists III, Female Temple Guards, Serpent Braziers, Consort of Set, Temple Characters, Cultists IV,
Nubian Queen, Nubian King and Followers

I really like these; they match his Ancient Egyptians / Hollywood Aegyptus figures very nicely, and have a lot of what I call charm. More palace people and temple folks for games!!!

Well, that didn't work. Let's try this...

DSC00121.jpg

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yes, exactly. I've had people ask me the same question - how can I possibly deal with all the chaos?

I dunno; I just do it.

That's because you actually listen to people in order to process information, not just wait for them to stop talking so you can start.

That, plus making sure you have no preconceptions of what players "should" do, is all you need.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yeah. What else can somebody say about this?

Although, we do still have those fifty blank T-shirts in stock, and the Missus does have the stuff to do silk-screening with...

Maybe I should do a fan club. With Secret Handshakes, of course...

Can I learn the Secret Handshakes over Internet, and start a section of the club here, Uncle?
I've had the temerity to include Chirine in my games* already. That should count for something!

*Pretty safe, since my players don't try to kill NPCs as a goal in itself - unless the NPC makes it personal, which isn't Chirine ba Kal's style at all...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

From AsenRG:
Well, I consider it a balancing act between system, setting and style of play/genre the group wants. Think of a certain Indiana Jones movie where he meets a machine that depends on three points being in precise balance...

Oh, yes, very much so. Couldn't agree more.

Well, we agree.

Not just OSR. There are people like that everywhere.

I'd agree. It just seemed that there was a higher percentage of them in the OSR, back a few years ago when I first started to be active on the web. I was more then a little put off by it, but then I assumed that it was something in the water supply that made them do it.

That doesn't sound entirely implausible...how concentrated are the OSR guys geographically?
Me, I think it's because people that weren't fanatics of some particular mechanics are more likely to switch to a new edition when it comes out. There have been like 3 new editions of D&D since then...

Yeah, that's a problem with night shifts. I've been on such a regime 3 years, and didn't meet many people, either...

True. I was on a overnight shift from 2008 to 2015, and it was actually easier to deal with. I'm now on the 3:30 to midnight, and it's gotten a lot harder to have a life outside work.

What can I say...if there's a way to deal with that, I haven't found it.

Do it - if the game part fails, you still get a social circle out of it...

Good advice! I'm working on it!

I'm sure you'll make it.

I can understand why. I've said more than once that I'd probably choose to stop running games instead of adopting a system and/or setting that I dislike.

Agreed. I love running Barsoom as a setting, but I have yet to find a set of rules that I can get and read. So, I just run the game like I usually do...

I've found that Savage Worlds works just fine - it's best for emulating exactly that kind of pulp stories...

We just sent letters.
It was a good thing we knew the authors, because the one who was doing the replies to my moves sometimes had trouble with my writing...

Hah! Now, that's funny - and I'll bet the orders for a little mixed up, too...

Well, they weren't exactly "orders". I chose to play a spy, not a general.
Somehow, I ended up with the most points, too!

Sorry to hear that...

Thanks; I wound up being the storyteller in the marketplace to entertain everybody and try to cheer them up a little. It seemed to work, but it was a difficult 'performance'.

Well, at least you made it. Other people might not have been able to rise to the occasion...

That's so cute!

It is, isn't it? Got me back on my feet, it did...

It is, undeniably - and as you said, not much more one can say about it...

Let's listen to the good advice, Uncle - both counts of it are true, IMO.

I think you're quite right; make two models, I think...

I'm always amazed with the number of your models - two more aren't that much for you, it seems...

Originally Posted by David Johansen

As a store owner I vigorously approve of people throwing money at me.

Honestly, I love do it yourself stuff, but have you seen Rendra's new castle. 'cause DANG!

My castle is hand made Styrofoam and it's okay. but DANG it Rendra!

You can always find people to take anything you're giving away for free but you never get any real commitment from them until they've spilt blood...errr...spent money.

Well, the problem is with store owners who refuse to bring something useful even when you order it, IME.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Just a quick general question, or two, or three. Asen used the Term OSR in a recent post. What exactly does this mean? Also, what is meant by a sandbox adventure? I know these are stupid questions, but it would seem a lot of new terminology has crept into the RPG lexicon since "my day", and not all the terms' meanings are self explanatory.

Shemek

Exactly what Hermes said, with a slight addition...

Originally Posted by Hermes Serpent

Old School Rules or Old School Renaissence are the two usual readings of OSR and relate to rulesets that are a clone of, or very similar in mechanics to, the OD&D three books set of the 1e AD&D books.

Sandbox is a term used to denote a setting where the action is driven by players who are free to roam around and pick whatever hooks take their fancy rather than a raiilroaded plot line with little or no player input..

Well, sometimes OSR is used for games where the mechanics aren't similar, but emulate the playstyle of a particular edition.

For example, Epees et Sorcellerie, despite the name, emulates the earliest days of the hobby, focusing on the swords-and-sorcerie roots of it (and on mechanics with d6, like Chainmail - although it's different in application, I gather).
DCC does the same, but mixes S&S inspiration with weird fantasy, and that's even reflected in the mechanics (which use weirdly-shaped dice and actually manage to do something worthwhile with them. Most of the time).
Lamentations of the Flame Princess, on the other hand, emulates the sandbox style of the early hobby, and mixes in weird fantasy. The mechanics of LotFP are more or less standard D&D-style stuff, though.

Of course, good sandbox actually needs a background, which can limit your options at times. Some people think that's too limiting; I think they're running games in boring settings. The two fractions shall not see eye to eye any time soon, I predict...

Originally Posted by Greentongue

As you invest time and money in props and the extensive details of each NPCs and items in a planned adventure, there is a urge to not let all that go to waste as characters SQUIRREL!!
and run off in a completely different direction. With some rule sets it is easier to generate the details on demand but reusing props can be a challenge.

While I like characters to drive the adventure (keeps it interesting), I can feel for the people with a lot invested in their pre-planned adventure|s.
=

I think those people just need a bigger "library" of props they can adapt to different locations.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yes, that was very helpful, and I'm sorry for not being more clear.

Back when I first started to interact with OSR people (about five-six years ago, now) I kept getting told that the various set of rules coming out of the movement were intended to simulate / replicate the way it was assumed / presumed that Dave Arneson, Gary Gygax, Phil Barker, etc. ran their games; the emphasis seemed to be on rules mechanics, both as a way to do this and - from what I got from various people - as a way to 'correct' the errors that it was felt had been made over time in the various games that came after these pioneers.

What baffled me was when I shared my experiences playing in those games, and how The Big Three ran the games that I was in. I was told that "No, no, it couldn't be that way!", as the assumption was that three guys had come up with a set of rules or mechanics that could be simply adopted in order to do 'OSR'-style play. I pointed out that for all intents and purposes that their style was 'Free Kriegspiel', more then anything else, with a healthy does of Braunstein mixed in. I was pretty astonished to hear about the 'railroady' games and game style, and then to be told that Phil's meta-game that ran in the background of our adventures was 'too railroady' and 'directed play'. From where we sat at the table, yes, there was an overarching meta-plot, ut we could do anything we really wanted to - very 'open sandbox'.

Fascinating.

I think the guys who assume a "railroady/illusionist" style of play were basing it on the adventures that got published...and the first railroads appeared relatively early, anyway (Dragonlance, anyone). So a lot of people who started before I was born began with rather railroady campaigns...
(Other sources of railroading is from people trying to emulate some gamebooks, where you could have only one correct way to solve the adventure, and/or early computer games...)

Those that thought Phil's games were "railroady", well, probably just based that on accounts of game play. When game has happened in a certain way, it only has one direction. What is not readily available is how many other directions it might have gone in...

Originally Posted by David Johansen

I frequently have new GMs asking me how I can be so flexible and roll with what the players want. That's the secret of course. There's a world out there with great events in motion but how and if it impacts the players is really up to them.

I just think about the structure of the setting and the structure of the NPCs' personalities. Once players actually do something, they crash into one and/or the other structure. The structures react by pushing back, or bending, or breaking and calling up for emergencies...and it all moves the Refereeing mill.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Neither am I, which is why I keep asking what some might think are dumb questions. I am, to be honest, just baffled by it all - and by the intensity of the discussions. I was up at the 'Free RPG Day' event at the local FLGS, after I dropped Second Daughter off at work, and was sort of bemused by it all. Didn't understand much of what I was hearing, but that's a measure of how much gaming has evolved over the decades.

Still drew a blank with 'Barsoom', though, when I asked people about a good set of RPG rules for the setting.

...hint, Uncle - next time try with John Carter's Mars. Even a lot of people who have read a couple books don't remember the name Barsoom, and many more have just watched the abomination of a movie. I think the name Barsoom was mentioned once in it, so of course, most people don't remember it.

A few might even be familiar with Mars games in the vein of John Carter...but those games avoid the name of Barsoom for IP reasons, just like the early hobbits and balrogs in D&D became halflings and balors.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

That's because you actually listen to people in order to process information, not just wait for them to stop talking so you can start.

That, plus making sure you have no preconceptions of what players "should" do, is all you need.

Some people still need more explanation than that.
Which is why I wrote a whole damn column! From then on, I was able to just paste them a link...beats explaining it again and again, I'll tell ya!
https://www.rpg.net/columns/tricksfo...sforgms2.phtml

(I'd add a few things today, but the core explanation I gave several years ago still holds, which pleases me).