Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

It can but it doesn't have to.

And as far as "all freemen are part of a levy," if somebody doesn't understand that I rather expect them to ask.

Of course, I ALSO prefer to play in the mode of "Don't worry about the rules, just tell me what you want to do." That's become, in my particular case, an absolute, in fact; I will not play in a game where I have to read the rules first, period. If I have to read more than two 8 1/2 x 11 inch pieces of paper about ANYTHING before I play, I simply will not do it.

Mileage, et cetera.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

It can but it doesn't have to.

Well, Gronan, I started with the same statement, didn't I?

There's nothing wrong with using a "d100 roll higher" mechanic.

But sometimes, the right mechanics gives ideas to the players - ideas they might not get otherwise.

So...there's two "levels" of mechanics. "Mechanics as reflection of what happens", and "mechanics as guidelines". The more you know about what happens OOC, the less you need mechanics to give you IC guidance, and vice versa. The "vice versa" clause is why wizardry rules are usually longer than rules for fighting, too.

Nobody says you need the second "level" - or rather, mechanics of the "other school". You can just use three sentences of rules (though that's "not an RPG" to some people, obviously - I'm still amused by that statement), and run an Arthurian romance with them.
Or you can use Pendragon.

And as far as "all freemen are part of a levy," if somebody doesn't understand that I rather expect them to ask.

Ask who? The rulebook? I'm talking about what is in a rulebook. Of course a good GM would be able to explain it, even to players who haven't read the book.
The problem with communicating this kind of info without rules is that sometimes people don't know what to do with it, or miss some relevant info that was in the text. OTOH, when you write it as rules, you can formalize the info you expect to be most relevant.

Of course, I ALSO prefer to play in the mode of "Don't worry about the rules, just tell me what you want to do." That's become, in my particular case, an absolute, in fact; I will not play in a game where I have to read the rules first, period. If I have to read more than two 8 1/2 x 11 inch pieces of paper about ANYTHING before I play, I simply will not do it.

Mileage, et cetera.

Sure, but not all people are like you. Some hear "you're Arthurian knights in a Britain taken from Malory", and say "cool setting, but what do you DO in it?" (Some even keep asking you pointed questions until you identify a dungeon-like structure for them).
Do you want me to give you links to threads asking that same question about different settings?
Same people tend to be happy with Adventure Paths, though...

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Funny thing, I think if you can get to people before the rule-for-everything-everything-has-a-rule mentality sets in, you are good to go.

I can confirm. And I always try to do exactly that.

I recently kicked off a Tekumel game for a bunch of kids, all under 13, a 15 year old and one of their dads (who I gamed with back when we were their age) running it on a stripped down Runequest 2 with the spells from Bethorm and it has been nothing short of awesome. The 15 year old had played a lot of Pathfinder and he struggled at first with the lack of rules (you mean if I want to sneak up behind the guard and knock him out, you roll dice, it happens or it doesn't, and we get on with the damn game? YES!) but by the end of the first session, he was going "this is great! I always wanted to play like this but couldn't figure out how!" Now as Gronan said, without an older hand it may have devolved into Lord of the Flies without more rules and structure in places. But all these kids like the openness of the game.And the dad looked at them and said, that is how we always did it back in the day.

Good job!

Also, they have internalized the Tekumel stuff so fast! Clan more important than individual. No lawless murderhobo stuff. And as was said up thread, the "old" sci-fi tropes from the 40's are new to them! And completely exotic! The first eye they came into contact elicited so many "COOOLs" and "WOWs" it would have made Gronan's black withered old heart grow three sizes that day and give him the strength of ten Gronans plus two!

Everyone has talked about some the books/media that they consumed that has helped form their gaming. I wonder how many folks are just too young to remember UHF stations. They were you saw all the old movies. Usually not the expensive high end movies but many of the ones mentioned in this thread. Cable and movie channels that came along after (and killed UHF) showed all the new movies, never old Sinbad/Jason and the Argonauts/sword and sandal stuff or things with Errol Flynn. My wife was blown away when she saw me watching Tony Curtis in the Vikings not long ago, as she couldn't picture him swinging a sword, so I showed her Taras Bulba (Yul Brynner had hair in it!). She wanted to know where I had heard about them. I told her I remembered watching them as a kid on UHF. I have heard Gronan and Chirine talk about the things that formed the DNA, not only of Tekumel, but of rpgs in general and sadly most younger people have never been exposed to it.

And I have only one answer to that...
"Long Live Project Gutenberg!"
Or, for a more ominous version.
"It cannot disappear that which has been digitalized, and in long aeons to come, even the notion of disappearing may yet die. And when the wind blows, the chaff flies away. In the end, that which has been old, might be new again"!

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Turned out she didn't want "evil," she wanted "anti-heroes" in the mold of Flashman, Han Solo, and The Three Musketeers.

That would be the shoots Greedo before Greedo can shoot him Han Solo.

I had the opposite problem of a player who heard "Three Musketeers" and expected the Musketeers to be good guy heroes instead of the sort of roguish heroes Dumas wrote about and Lester filmed.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

You should look closely at the "Mythic GM Emulator" as a way to play with your stuff in a way that is fun and surprising.

I endorse this statement. I've used the Mythic GME to good effect for both solo play and as a tool when I GM for others.

UHF was indeed a loss because of all the cheezy old movies. Not only Taras Bulba with Yul Brinner, but don't forget John Wayne as Gengiz Khan!

And the Italian studios cranked out "Sword and Sandal" movies like Hollywood cranked out Westerns. And with a bit of redubbing they reached this country as the "Sons of Hercules!" movies.

I'd like to note that there's a broad spectrum of a rule for everything where there's a consistent and systematic method to the thing and the book doesn't turn into a million pages of special case rules. The modern tendency towards talent trees and special moves drives me nuts. I want the rules to work the way they work, not a list of stupid names for ways you can break the rules.

Everything I was going to say about mechanics has pretty well been addressed. The only point I want to make is that, for me at least, the mechanics of the game are only there to help advance the story. I can honestly say I could care less whether something is clearly spelled out in a rules corpus or not. If a fighter needs to climb a cliff or wall in order to escape well let him try. If it's an easy slope then so be it. Maybe I'll roll once just to see if something flukey happens. Then again I may not roll. If the fighter wants to climb Thulsa Doom's Tower, well he better give me a detailed breakdown on how he plans to do it. I guess my point is that you don't need rules for every eventuality or possibility. When I was in my final year of high school, and while in the army, I got it in my head that D&D was too loosey goosey and more detailed rule sets were needed. I honestly thought that Rolemaster was the ticket. My friends and I spent an afternoon rolling up characters. Our first game session we spent the entire evening resolving a combat. We went back to D&D, and similar game systems, after a couple of attempts at Rolemaster. Ultimately I guess one should RPG in a manner that works for them. As I said in an earlier I have been fighting my guys for years in an attempt to simplify game mechanics. I guess that's the way it goes.

Shemek.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

UHF was indeed a loss because of all the cheezy old movies. Not only Taras Bulba with Yul Brinner, but don't forget John Wayne as Gengiz Khan!

And the Italian studios cranked out "Sword and Sandal" movies like Hollywood cranked out Westerns. And with a bit of redubbing they reached this country as the "Sons of Hercules!" movies.

Don't forget the great Hong Kong, Kung fu films. When I was a kid there was a station out of Rochester that showed these films every Saturday afternoon. The Five Deadly Venoms and David Carradine's Kung Fu inspired hours of jumping and kicking in little Shemek and his friends (as well as countless bruises and a broken finger)

Shemek.