I think I'd have to agree with this, based on my experiences. So many people I've known over the years who seem to believe that F/SF started with Lucas or Jackson. There's all this rich history and publication that led up to this point, and that's worth mining for ideas. At least I think so, anyway.Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya
You're quite right - I suspect that a lot of older stuff is now unknown and out of print, which is a great pity. Even my favourite author, Jack Vance, seems unknown these days, but then I guess that he's relatively ancient history now...
Last edited by d(sqrt(-1)); 05-29-2016 at 05:11 PM. Reason: typos
That's very interesting. For me as a GM I always like to know how stuff works to some extent, even if it is mysterious to the PCs. For many years I felt unable to run Glorantha because after reading Cults of Prax etc it seemed like there was a huge detailed world out there that I didn't know enough about to do justice. It was only after several conventions and meeting Greg Stafford that I realised that he didn't know a lot of the details either, because they had just never been made up at the time...I tried to answer this last night, but the reply got lost in a connection burp. So...
Um, I don't think that there's a 'correct' or 'incorrect' to this. Phil could change a light bulb, but he was very hazy on how it produced light. One of the more unpleasant conversations at a convention was when a fan asked him how the Eyes work. He said he didn't know, just that they did, and the fan berated him for not having thought out his world setting in enough detail. Whatever you come up with to explain how stuff works may very well be how it works - we have no idea, just that is does. See also Clarke's Law...
The thing about great settings like Tekumel, Glorantha or Middle Earth is that they "feel" right and make it seem that there is a lot more to them than is necessarily actually there...
Last edited by d(sqrt(-1)); 05-29-2016 at 05:25 PM.
Ok, that's great, and does fit in with how it seemed to me. So using a disc loads the ten buttons with the data from the disc, which becomes the new settings until they in turn are overwritten.
Hm, I wonder what happens if you leave a car in the station with the door open? Does the system notice after a bit and dispatch something to sort out the problem? Otherwise it would be a good way to disable a tubeway station...there are maintenance tunnels etc right? So something could come along to sort it out...
Last edited by d(sqrt(-1)); 05-29-2016 at 05:24 PM.
I think so, too, and I'm wondering if any of this material is up on the web or available as e-books? Jack Vance is a great example - Phil drew the first maps of the Dying Earth for him, way back when - and a lot of RPG people talk about 'Vancian magic'. Cabn one still get his books outside of the specialist shops?
And a quick plug, if that's all right: Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore: http://www.unclehugo.com/
Very, very good point!!! Yes, there's a lot that simply isn't known about Tekumel - in addition to the specifics we've been talking about - and Phil kept saying as much. He wanted people to get out there and adventure to find out what was what, and that's what we did for all of our time with him. Well, as best we could, anyway...
Yes, you have it. That was our 'get out of town in a hurry trick', leaving the hatch open. It did entail leaving a guard with the car, just to make sure, but then we had learned the hard way to be very, very careful.
I don't know; we never left a tubeway car alone with the hatch open long enough to get a response from the system. However, we did find cars sitting in stations with no occupants, but with the hatch closed. My guess, and it's a guess as I didn't program the system, is that after a certain period the central control sends an over-ride command to the car with the hatch open to close the hatch and so make the car available to the system. I'd agree with you - after a long enough string of 'malfunction reports', a repair robot (or worse) would be sent.
As for maintenance tunnels, yes, there are some, but we only saw them in the big stations and junctions and they were for man-sized beings or robots. Everything normally comes through the normal tunnels - once had a 'tow truck' show up, slap what we assumed was a tractor beam on the car, and tow it off. Also saw cars pull all the way up out of the tunnel, if there was enough head room, and a repair machine float up out of the tunnel. Scared the kilts right off us, I tell you. The system is to some extent self-healing, after accidents, but it just takes it time to react and repair itself.
And it's not all machine-based, either; the tunnels in the upper crust of the planet seem to be dug by very large 'worms', which are sentient, that digest the rock as they go. Deeper down, like in the core tunnels that lead to the gravity engines that control the planet's orbit and rotation, it's all machine 'life-forms'.
One thing to remember is that there are truly 'private stations', like used to be on the UK railways - 'private halts', as it were - and some cars were indeed privately owned. This is why there are different 'models' of the cars; they all have the same basic features, but there are differences in detail amongst them.
Might get back to my model of one tomorrow; one-man scout flyers on the workbench today...
Ooo, never heard of this before - any more like this? Are these worms still controlled from somewhere or are they basically now loose creatures?
To quote Gary Gygax, "Decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way!"
Honestly, I don't know. I'm not sure if Phil knew. From the game standpoint, my opinion would be the best answer is "Some are, some aren't...."
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Formerly known as Old Geezer
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Guys, unless Project Gutenberg is somehow illegal in your country*, there's a lot of these, and more are getting released every day. The text of Barsoom novels is long since in the public domain; which is A Good Thing (TM), or I would never have been able to read as many of them as I have...
Jack Vance has less works on Project Gutenberg - only "Sjambak", it seems - but there are a few short stories you can find (legally) on other sites. Why they aren't on Project Gutenberg is beyond me, frankly.
In all honesty, I'm mixing my explanations of different sources, including some from early Russian sources. They had a thing for biotechnologies, those early writers - though the technology is almost never the point of the tale (with some notable exceptions)!
*And then: what kind of corporations-owned hellhole do you live in?
I tried to answer this last night, but the reply got lost in a connection burp. So...
Um, I don't think that there's a 'correct' or 'incorrect' to this. Phil could change a light bulb, but he was very hazy on how it produced light. One of the more unpleasant conversations at a convention was when a fan asked him how the Eyes work. He said he didn't know, just that they did, and the fan berated him for not having thought out his world setting in enough detail. Whatever you come up with to explain how stuff works may very well be how it works - we have no idea, just that is does. See also Clarke's Law...Thing is...if we can imagine it, it's all right.Very, very good point!!! Yes, there's a lot that simply isn't known about Tekumel - in addition to the specifics we've been talking about - and Phil kept saying as much. He wanted people to get out there and adventure to find out what was what, and that's what we did for all of our time with him. Well, as best we could, anyway...
If we can't imagine how it works, it's all right, too. I was unable to imagine smartscreens before they existed; now there's three of those so close I can reach them with my hand. We can't always imagine what future technology would be like, not even in general. Yes, Jules Verne prophesied submarines and helicopters before they existed...but not every Referee is Jules Verne. And he had technology that was just off, too.
And of course, some of the technology on Tekumel doesn't fit with modern scientific concepts. Which is alright, it doesn't need to. Before airplanes appeared, some people were trying to prove that there cannot be a heavier-than-air flying apparatus, or that helicopters are impossible...up until some inventors proved them wrong.
It just so happens that I can explain how stuff on Tekumel works, and have it make enough sense that my science-educated players mostly accept it. But it is a heady mix of nanotechnology and Tibetan mysticism, so might not be appropriate for all campaigns.
And you can have your own explanations as well. That would be totally normal
And it's not all machine-based, either; the tunnels in the upper crust of the planet seem to be dug by very large 'worms', which are sentient, that digest the rock as they go. Deeper down, like in the core tunnels that lead to the gravity engines that control the planet's orbit and rotation, it's all machine 'life-forms'.
One thing to remember is that there are truly 'private stations', like used to be on the UK railways - 'private halts', as it were - and some cars were indeed privately owned. This is why there are different 'models' of the cars; they all have the same basic features, but there are differences in detail amongst them.
Might get back to my model of one tomorrow; one-man scout flyers on the workbench today...Worth remembering, and I'm taking notes
"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky
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