Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

And it's obscure literary reference night, here at the RPG site!

Try the veal, folks; we're having a special, and we'll be here all week for your amusement!

Shaboom! Shaboom!

Thanks for making this old man feel young again! And I'm glad your back is starting to feel better.

You know, I honestly think D&D is at its best when you let go of pretension and let the universe be a pastiche of whatever tickles you. And Tekumel too; Phil was just building his pastiche out of what he happened to know from his travels! So for the rest of us, go ahead and wallow in Cecil B DeMille epics, old Mummy movies, Arabian Nights stories, the various Sinbad movies and TV shows, and anything else "exotic" you can think of!

It's a GAME, dammit! Games are supposed to be FUN!

And tip your servers. Those kids work hard.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Sigh again.


4) Nobody realized -- and by "nobody," I mean "not even GAMA" -- that the D&D bubble had burst but good, and wasn't coming back. It wouldn't be until the late 80s or early 90s that people really figured it out. 1983 was about the WORST time in the world to start a RPG company.

5) We still had "Gold Rush Fever". This is closely connected to #4. "This crummy little D&D game made Gary Gygax rich, our BETTER game will make US rich!" Nobody at ALL had figured out yet that D&D was "lightning striking" and was a once in a lifetime phenomenon.

6) We didn't really have any idea of what we wanted to accomplish. "Make Tekumel the new D&D" sounds all very exciting, but what's your action plan?

... And not a damn one of us had any real idea why we were going. Man of Gold had just come out, and Phil and I had a day long meeting with Donald Wollheim about MoG and Tekumel in general. Some idea of how far divorced from reality we were may be gained by considering that Phil, with an entirely straight face, was talking about movie rights and Hugo awards. Our general plan, however, seemed to be

1. Go to Worldcon
2. ???
3. Profit!

At the end of it all I was so exhausted and demoralized I not only stopped playing Tekumel, I stopped gaming completely for 15 years. Maybe it's a good thing it was me and not Chirine after all; I wouldn't wish that whole experience on anybody. "No reward is worth this."

Gronan, your analysis is absolutely bang on. This is the thing that many people, who were not gaming in 70's and 80's, don't realize: D&D was huge. I remember reading an article about it and Gygax in Time Magazine, but the whole D&D phenomenon was an anomaly. The planets and stars were aligned just right, or something, and for that brief period everyone was playing the game. However, just as quickly as the stars aligned everything started to unwind and it was pretty well all over. We're talking only a few years. When I started high school everyone was playing, I mean there were 10 groups just in the 9th grade demographics of my school. By the time I finished high school I knew of only one other group of players in the whole school.

Look all of the companies that sprung up during the late 70's and 80's also hoping to do what you guys wanted to do. This was the best time, IMO, for war gamers and role players. The variety was amazing, and I'm not surprised that people thought that Tekumel could and should have a place as well.

Sometimes when we create something and a modicum of success is achieved it's easy to start pipe dreaming. After all, this is the best thing I've ever done. Everyone will love it and want more...
Well I for one am glad you returned to gaming. Have you run any Tekumel games since your return?

Shemek

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Thanks for making this old man feel young again! And I'm glad your back is starting to feel better.

You know, I honestly think D&D is at its best when you let go of pretension and let the universe be a pastiche of whatever tickles you. And Tekumel too; Phil was just building his pastiche out of what he happened to know from his travels! So for the rest of us, go ahead and wallow in Cecil B DeMille epics, old Mummy movies, Arabian Nights stories, the various Sinbad movies and TV shows, and anything else "exotic" you can think of!

It's a GAME, dammit! Games are supposed to be FUN!

And tip your servers. Those kids work hard.

I couldn't agree with you more! If people would follow this advice, and stop worrying about nonsense I think that Tekumel would greatly benefit. Even Phil said make it your Tekumel. Why the hell does my game have to be exactly like somebody else's game? How boring!

Shemek.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Gronan, your analysis is absolutely bang on. This is the thing that many people, who were not gaming in 70's and 80's, don't realize: D&D was huge. I remember reading an article about it and Gygax in Time Magazine, but the whole D&D phenomenon was an anomaly. The planets and stars were aligned just right, or something, and for that brief period everyone was playing the game. However, just as quickly as the stars aligned everything started to unwind and it was pretty well all over. We're talking only a few years. When I started high school everyone was playing, I mean there were 10 groups just in the 9th grade demographics of my school. By the time I finished high school I knew of only one other group of players in the whole school.

Look all of the companies that sprung up during the late 70's and 80's also hoping to do what you guys wanted to do. This was the best time, IMO, for war gamers and role players. The variety was amazing, and I'm not surprised that people thought that Tekumel could and should have a place as well.

Sometimes when we create something and a modicum of success is achieved it's easy to start pipe dreaming. After all, this is the best thing I've ever done. Everyone will love it and want more...
Well I for one am glad you returned to gaming. Have you run any Tekumel games since your return?

Shemek

1) Yes. D&D was a "bubble." Like every bubble from the 17th century Dutch tulip bubble to the US real estate bubble of the early 21st century, rational people did things that make us later say "what the hell were they thinking?" Like banks writing mortgages without ever pulling a credit report, or empty nest couples in their late 50s selling their paid for houses and buying million dollar mansions with a 30 year mortgage. And the banks writing them.

2) I didn't run anything until a couple years ago, when I started running OD&D as a lark. I have since realized it works best if you take it on its own terms, and always remember that first and foremost it is a game. When I finished the first draft of my book that was the revelation that hit me like five pounds of cold mashed potatoes; D&D is completely, totally coherent if you think of it as a game first of all. Like, monsters can see in the dark, but lose that ability once players hire them. It makes no damn sense... except in terms of playing the game.

"D&D was huge."

Indeed... SO huge the kids were playing it in "E.T. the Extra Terrestrial" ... the highest grossing movie in HISTORY from 1982 to 1993.

That's huge.

This is a sort of placeholder of a message until later today - just back in after a long day, at 0400 local time. The evening went very, very well. I can talk about some of it, other parts are under embargo for a while.

Saw a whole lot of people that Gronan and I have in common, and their kids (!). I had to list all of my daughters; must bring photos, next time. Got to talk to Malia, and get the little plastic guy I had found in my collection to her - she has the rust monster and the pterodactyl, I am happy to report! - so I'm happy. (I may still have the bullette, so I'll look for it for her.) Got to talk to her daughter and the daughter's friend, who is interested in RPGs and had never seen one being played; I, being some sort of 'expert / explainer', filled them in on what was happening. All told, things went very well, and I came home about a half hour ago exhausted but a very happy camper. The 'Adventure of the Ancient Pot-roast' was discussed; I was trying to sell your book, my General.

More to come; I'll try and get caught up with the discussion...

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

I always thought that people would mount them into rings if possible...

Huh! I've heard of them being mounted in the heads of staffs and in standards, but never rings! The closest we got was when I threatened to do Temple of Ksarul Secret Decoder Rings - send in two box tops, and...

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

I've been quizzing Jeff Dee on the Bethorm forums about rules interpretations and errata - he's probably got fed up with me by now! But it's a good set of rules. BTW the Kurt Hills Gazetter just funded on KS a few weeks ago...

Agreed. It's the best analogue to what Phil was doing with S&G, but in a simpler to use form.

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

Are there any notes, manuscripts etc for S&G 3? I've got Vol 1 & 2 (Tita's for the latter) but I'd like to see Vol 3

I have a copy of the manuscript in my archives, but the book was never finished; Phil got up at about 150 pages and then stopped; my copy has all the notes that Gronan made when he was stuck trying to make something of it, so I've got about 200 - 235 pages in loose leaf format. I do not have any loose notes for this book, which would be normal practice for Phil in his writing. It wasn't until he really started using computers that he'd bother with drafts.

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

I just bought one of these from Amazon: Energy Cosmic Ball which I think might serve. I've got some similar ones somewhere but the batteries may have run out by now

I've got a couple myself, bought before the import restrictions. They work pretty well in the role, I think, although they do tend to rip right through batteries. Fun, though!