Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Omega

If you know. What was the genesis of the Adventures on Tekumel series? How did it end up being a Fighting Fantasy style paragraph/storybook game?

Well! Let's kick open this can of worms, shall we?

Oddly enough, I was just talking to Neal Cauley about this yesterday; I was visiting Phoenix games, and Neal happened to be in. (He's sold the shop to some friends and retired.)

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Gaming here in the Twin Cities, back before the Internet, used to lag about a decade behind the rest of the game industry. Very few local gamers would travel to game conventions like Gen Con or Origins, so gamers would be exposed to new ideas only through the various local retail outlets - bookstores, mostly. On top of this, Phil's game group of the time was even more isolated, with very few of the players being connected to the local game scene or the hobby in general. (Keep in mind that they viewed themselves as a social and gaming elite, and experts in everything.) Dave Arneson once told Phil that this was not a good thing: "Phil, you can't design games in a vacuum." Also about his time, Dave had left Different Worlds, and Phil had severed his connection with them as well, both because Dave wasn't out on the West Coast and because Tadashi-san had learned (the hard way) that Phil's back list of old publications simply didn't sell without a very strong and active marketing effort or active fan base. Sitting in Phil's basement and complaining didn't move the merchandise.

So, one of the courtiers showed Phil some of the Steve Jackson books, and Phil's eyes lit up with dollar signs - if that jerk in Texas could make loads and loads of money with this kind of crap, then so could he. What we had all been asking him for was very different; 'Adventures on Tekumel' as just that; introductory adventures that could be picked up by anybody and played as a way to get players and GMs interested in the world-setting. Instead, the books' format was copied and in Phil's idea of what the game hobby should be like. By this time, Dave Arneson had gotten connected with the parent company of what would become TOME, who then became the publisher. TOME had no experience whatsoever in the RPG hobby and industry, and relied entirely on Dave's advice and Phil's reputation with EPT.

It wasn't a happy thing. Phil, as usual, didn't have any editing or playtesting done by 'outsiders'; it was all done internally, by the people who had a vested interest in the thing getting published, and the series also fell afoul of the 'politics around the Petal Throne' as to who Phil's 'favorite of the month' was gong to be. The books duly came out, with nice production values and decently-sized print runs, and didn't sell at all well; The lack of editing had produced a set of books that had rules that didn't mesh very well with each other, and Neal was called in to write something that would tie the books together and produce a viable RPG for Tekumel. The result was "Gardasiyal", which TOME thought was a complete in the box RPG - which it wasn't; one had to find and buy all of the other books in order to actually play the game. No amount of good production values will paper over a badly thought-out specification; the 'installed base' of the Adventures books mitigated against what should have been done, scrap the books and reuse the material in a decently edited set of RPG rules. And, of course, by this time TOME was running out of money for Tekumel stuff, so the actual product quality - which would have looked good in 1980 - was not up to the standards of the middle 1990s.

In a nutshell; the Adventures books and their follow on boxed set was the last gasp of the 'internal production system' out at Phil's, often referred to by the technical term 'Anything you can do, we can do better!'

The reviews were not kind.

Originally Posted by Bren

Three parts: the front part, the back part, and the part in between.

That quote must annoy the heck out of the romance of the lost cause guys.

True!

It did, it still does, and it's all Longstreet's fault anyway.

Personally, I agree with what he said he told Lee, at the time: "Ain't no fifteen thousand men arrayed for battle gonna take that position." He was right.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

So - how do you simulate this in a game? More rules? Or just let the players learn how to do it?

Well it depends on who it is that is supposed to be good at estimating ranges.

If it's the character, in Honor+Intrigue it would be easy to mimic. I'd make a Boon: Estimate Range by Sight or maybe Boon: God's Gift to Gunners. The boon gives a bonus die to hit with direct and indirect artillery. The rest of the uncanny accuracy would be decent scores in Savvy the Ranged combat ability, and, points in one's career as a gunner/artilleryman.

Originally Posted by Big Andy

You say tech stuff is something that the common folk would see. Are they even aware of it? Or is it quasi mythical to them? How about magic? The basic healing spells.The spells listed in various editions that could really be a boon to a farmer. Do most common folk ever see even basic stuff like that?

I don't want your blood pressure to go up, but I actually enjoy cranky old man mode. It is cathartic.

They'd see it in the hands of us noble folk, and maybe as a relic in the local temple. Yes, they're aware of it, just like we're aware of the Shroud of Turin. 'Magic', on the other hand, they'd see every day down the temple. You have it - a lot of the 'low level' spells would be seen in use by the local clergy in the annual round of seasonal rituals. "Blessing the crops" would involve a lot of ritual and ceremony, with the high point being the actual 'casting of a spell' by the local cleric. Done it myself, a number of times. The worshippers love it, and the round of the seasons goes on. (Ma'at, anyone?) As for a local healing spell, yes, you do see it happening, but it's not all that much of a 'high-level' spell and may or may not do the patient any good. It's all part of the expected 'bedside manner', though, and the actual healing is in the hands of the gods.

Thanks for the kind words! The injury to my lower back that I've been dealing with all week is much better, and I still have more then a week of vacation left!

Originally Posted by Bren

Well it depends on who it is that is supposed to be good at estimating ranges.

If it's the character, in Honor+Intrigue it would be easy to mimic. I'd make a Boon: Estimate Range by Sight or maybe Boon: God's Gift to Gunners. The boon gives a bonus die to hit with direct and indirect artillery. The rest of the uncanny accuracy would be decent scores in Savvy the Ranged combat ability, and, points in one's career as a gunner/artilleryman.

Sounds good to me - just enough mechanics to get the job done, but not enough to bog down the game! Thank you!

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Yes, as always!!! Thank you.

H:0)

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by Big Andy

You say tech stuff is something that the common folk would see. Are they even aware of it? Or is it quasi mythical to them? How about magic? The basic healing spells.The spells listed in various editions that could really be a boon to a farmer. Do most common folk ever see even basic stuff like that?

Thought about this some more, and I'd like to elaborate on it if I may.

So we arrive in this little village out in rural Tsolyanu, get the usual decent reception from the headman, and he mentions that there's a person sick in the village. First thing I do is inquire if there's a local priest, and if there is I call on them to get their local information. Then, we all go pay the patient a visit; the noble person makes sure to respect the local cleric, no matter how low their level they might be; you have been called into the case as a consultant, and to give your 'expert advice' - not to throw your weight around and look like an idiot. You do what you can, in consultation with the local cleric, and see if you can help. Phil's usual rule on healing spells was that you had to do it within 24 hours of the original injury, otherwise it didn't 'take'. This, we felt, was a really good bit of play balance, because if we didn't have the 'first aid kit' in the party, it would go badly; this limit is how my leaden alter ego got his bashed-up nose - it got broken in a fight, and he didn't get to a healer in time.

So, you'd come in and allow as how you'd seen a very similar and equally as rare case in Bey Su, discuss the case in detail, and help out the first-level village cleric with your fourth or fifth level spell; it'll maybe do some good for the patient, and the villagers would be talking about it for the next decade about how the mighty wizard fixed Chagresh's broken shoulder. A noble person would also make sure to give the local cleric a donation - like a couple of silver pieces; remember that is is out in the sticks, and the locals may never have seen a gold kaitar! - 'for their prayers' and for the further care of the patient. One may never see this village again, but it's the noble thing to do.

And it's all based on Phil's travels in rural India; he loved to tell about the time he was called upon as the great scholar, Barker Sahib, to look in on a patient by the local cleric and offer his learned opinion. Great amounts of incense, lots and lots of very learned discussions, much citing of the classic medical texts, and Phil suggested a new miracle drug that might help - the local cleric agreed, and Phil provided some of his aspirins. The patient felt a lot better, the local cleric was much enhanced in his prestige by his consulting the famous scholar, Phil got the royal treatment in all the villages, and all was good.

Does any of this help explain things for you? Wonderful question!