Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Chirine,

Some questions for you so we can get back to more pleasant subjects, and forget the antics of the Tekumel Weenies.
A. What else can you tell us about some of your more exotic or “remote areas” encounters in Phil’s game? For example, I understand that you visited the Palace of Bassa, King of the Black Ssu, and the City of The Red Tiled Roofs, and the military installation at the South Pole to name just a few. Also, do I remember you saying that a group of Phil’s players traveled to one of the automated stations in orbit around Tekumel? Are there any other places that you may not have journeyed to, but have some inside information on? Any details would be appreciated, such as architecture, unique inhabitants, etc.
B. As far as “game canon” goes what is the current status of Captain Harchar, et.al., The Glorious General, Karin Missum, Baron Ald and Lord Fu Shi’I, etc? Are they still alive in the Tékumel universe? Have they retired and made way for the next generation?
C. Did you ever encounter any of the characters from Phil’s first gaming group from the 50’s as NPC’s? Was the Baron Ald one such former PC turned NPC?
D. If Tsolyanu is like Moghul India, or Ancient Egypt, what would you recommend as a good source of inspiration for Mu'ugalavya? What type of images would be suitable to show to new players in order to establish the feel of the place?


Shemek.

Chirine,

Here's another one the Firu baYeker may have told.

The Wax Crocodile

(KING KHUFU sat to hear tales told by his sons regarding the wonders of other days and the doings of magicians. The Prince Khafra stood before him and related the ancient story of the wax crocodile.)

Once upon a time a Pharaoh went towards the temple of the god Ptah. His counsellors and servants accompanied him. It chanced that he paid a visit to the villa of the chief scribe, behind which there was a garden with a stately summer house and a broad artificial lake.

Among those who followed Pharaoh was a handsome youth, and the scribe's wife beheld him with love. Soon afterwards she sent gifts unto him, and they had secret meetings. They spent a day in the summer house and feasted there, and in the evening the youth bathed in the lake.

The chief butler then went to his master the scribe and informed him what had come to pass. The scribe bade the servant to bring a certain magic box, and when he received it he made a small wax crocodile, over which he muttered a spell. He placed it in the hands of the butler, saying: "Cast this image into the lake behind the youth when next he bathes himself "

On another day when the scribe dwelt with Pharaoh, the lovers were together in the summer house, and at eventide the youth went into the lake. The butler stole through the garden, and stealthily he cast into the water the wax image, which was immediately given life. It became a great crocodile that seized the youth suddenly and took him away.

Seven days passed, and then the scribe spoke to the Pharaoh regarding the wonder which had been done, and made request that His Majesty should accompany him to his villa. The Pharaoh did so, and when they both stood beside the lake in the garden the scribe spoke magic words, bidding the crocodile to appear.

As he commanded, so did it do. The great reptile came out of the water carrying the youth in its jaws.

The scribe said: "Lo! it shall do whatever I command to be done."

Said the Pharaoh: "Bid the crocodile to return at once to the lake."

Ere he did that, the scribe touched it, and immediately it became a small image of wax again. The Pharaoh was filled with wonder, and the scribe related unto him all that had happened, while the youth stood waiting.

Said His Majesty unto the crocodile: "Seize the wrongdoer." The wax image was again given life and, clutching the youth, leaped into the lake and disappeared. Nor was it ever seen after that.

Then Pharaoh gave command that the wife of the scribe should be seized. On the north side of the house she was bound to a stake and burned alive, and what remained of her was thrown into the Nile.

Such was the tale told by Khafra. Khufu was well pleased and caused offerings of food and refreshment to be placed in the tombs of the Pharaoh and his wise servant.


Shemek.

This isn't a Tekumel question, but it was funny at the time.

We were playing Tractics. I was one of the Americans and Tom was one of the Germans. I'm pretty sure you were the referee, because we had a boatload of infantry... like, a company each.

(In Tractics, if you have time you can set up "ranging stakes" for artillery and then direct your fire by calling range off the stakes.)

We had set up range stakes, and as Americans in late 44 we had God's own lot of 60mm mortars. For those not familiar with Tractics, the 60mm mortar has a 1/2" burst radius. You have to be very accurate or very lucky.

Well, Tom advances a company of German infantry well dispersed, but still close enough to support each other. A really nice advance, frankly.

But, you see, I'm very, very good at estimating ranges.

At the end of Tom's movement I opened up with all my 60mm mortars. And even though his infantry were 2 or 3 inches apart, I proceed to slaughter them. I was so accurate in my fire that I was literally dropping rounds onto individual German soldiers' little punkin haids. I could have been firing 60mm round stones and I would have been braining the troops; I didn't even need the shell fragments.

At the end one turn of fire as poor Tom stood there with his mouth open, there was one squad left out of an entire German infantry company. ( I miswrote one number.)

Good times, good times.

Anyway, do you remember any more about that battle? My memory ain't what it usedta was.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I'm almost sorry you didn't do exactly that.
Business sense has nothing to do with that.


Yeah, I just used the name of my service provider.


OK, that is a great story!


I'd say "a decent human being", instead of "gamer", but yeah.
Alas, the ability is conspicuously absent from some people.


We'll be waiting.


Academic explanation isn't supposed to be worse than no explanation at all...and wasting 25% of the session is exactly that.


I've always been less than conventional.


Well, after some deliberation - they could form a clique, study the matter, and then try to explain it to others, in order to get some payoff for the time spent studying.

Agreed, on all points!!!

Originally Posted by Hrugga

On my honor Lord Chirine, I will never mention that "monster" again...I will try to submit some new questions, but I have been unable to do any Tekumel related reading as of late.

Be well uncle.

H:0)

Thank you! I love to talk about Phil's creation, but I am not keen on discussing all of the utter crap that has been pulled over the decades. I promised my eldest, when we got her, that we would never, ever lie to her if she would not lie to us; we made the same deal with the following daughters as well. I promised Tekumel fans the same thing when I got back into gaming, and I've tried very hard to keep to that ever since. I will try to answer any and all questions as honestly as I can, based on what I know, but some of the answers are not very 'comfortable'; I had the same issue when I was interviewed for a documentary. The truth is what I believ in, no matter how painful it might be to me personally.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

What other underground structures besides tubeways (hyperloops) were constructed by the ancients, or others, that characters might stumble across?

How wrong would it be to play EPT in a Sword & Blaster style?
In other words, how common could you make high tech toys be for the characters without breaking the setting?

What about inter-dimensional beings?
Would adventures focusing on plugging the "leaks" of such beings into the world be reasonable?
In other words, Man of God on steroids.
=

Right. We saw all sorts of complexes; command and control bunkers, weapons emplacements - the huge battleship-sized ones that defend Avanthar still work, and are still programmed to shoot at air- or spaceships that fly too close and don't have the correct identification codes - spaceports, repair facilties, and just about anything else you might need to keep a space-faring civilization running.

Okay, I'll bite. what's the difference between "Sword and Blaster" and "Sword and Planet"? I hold that Tekumel was not, and never really has been, a 'fantasy' setting; Gary insisted on calling it that because he felt that doing any different would confuse the then-new D&D audience. based on Phil's own works for Tekumel, I'd call it the same as his inspiration: "Sword and Planet". I'm asking because I am no familiar with "Sword and Blaster" as a term or game style.

Having said that, we usually carried quite a lot of ancient devices around with us, but we were always off on adventures on the edges of the world. We had a lot more opportunity to aquire and keep theses things; once we'd get back to the central empire, we'd often 'donate' stuff to our clans and temples to keep them happy. This was, in game terms, a way to keep things down to a dull roar, and the game play more enjoyable as it created the need for more adventures. Me, I'd keep the party to an Eye or two each, with the very occasional 'special' as a goodie. It makes the players think, not just 'push the button', and is more of a challenge to them. And, of course, (like Phil did) I tailor the threats to their skills and weapons - more goodies, more deadly peril!

major ones, rarely; minor ones, all the time.

Yes. Did several of them myself; Blackmoor had a habit of leaking through, both ways, and required constant attention to the inter-planar fabric. Some very odd visitors, over the years.

Originally Posted by Spinachcat

Gonna borrow Shemek's colorful term here. I met a few of these "utter dickweevils" at West Coast cons way back when and they completely turned me off Tekumel which had seemed really interesting.

Clearly the "official" Tekumel IP has been compromised by the fuckmortons and dickweevils. However, do you believe there is value in a "knock off" setting or new setting "inspired by" the same original sources that MAR Barker enjoyed?

AKA, do you think there is a market for a new, Not-Tekumel Tekumel that scratches the same gaming itch? And if so, would that be something you would enjoy creating?

Also, have you checked out RPGPundit's Arrows of Indra? I'd be interested to hear how his setting compares to Tekumel as they are both "non-medieval European fantasy" settings.

I'd be very interested too.

In order:

Yep. I've heard this kind of thing from a lot of people, over the years. Tekumel's more devout fans are one of it's biggest problems.

No. See also Harn and Jorune, which their creators told me that they'd specifically based on Tekumel. Neither had a lot of popular appeal; the vast majority of gamers simply don't want to have to deal with a 'complicated' and/or 'difficult' world setting. Somebody could do it, but they'd loose their shirts in the process. The one and only exception that I would make to this statement would be a Barsoom-based game, an that's not going to happen because of the IP fees involved. There are several very nice not-Barsoom sets of rules out there, and I'd look in that direction.

No. I think it would be a huge mistake, myself, for the reasons I just mentioned. The gamers will not buy it. And no, absolutely not; I will not make the mistake of getting involved in the business side of the house that I did in 1978 - much as I liked Dave and Phil, it was simply the one and only choice in my long and busy life that I truly regret.

Yes; I bought a copy when it came out - see also the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth when I told Pundit that I thought that "Arrows" would have been something Phil would have liked, and that it could be used pretty much 'as is' for running Tekumel. They are both 'India', and have a lot of the very same assumptions and basic world-setting attributes.

I'll see what I can do. Suffering a lower back injury at the moment, which has made my vacation a misery.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Tell the story of how Qutmu got impaled. That always cheers you up!

Well, all right. And it still brings a smile to my cherubic little face, too...

So, we're stitting around at the Siege of Sunraya, when we notice that dear old General Qutmu hi Tizena has a supply convoy passing by. A lot of the carts have boxes of crossbow quarrels in them, the labels say, address to his Legion of the Scales of Brown. Big boxes, too. About six foot long, and about three feet wide and tall. Lots of nervous Sarku priests in the escort, too. The Glorious General looks over at me and asks "What's so interesting , there, Chirine?" and I points out to my general that Scales of Brown are a heavy infantry legion, not crossbowmen. The Glorious General picks yet another sand-flea off his armor, and we amble over to the road to have a gander at the boxes. The Wormy Boys are all twitchy, and the Glorious General invites one of them to open one of the boxes for him. The priest starts making excuses, so the Glorious General has his guards open it. There's an Undead trooper of the legion inside, and we wind up arresting everybody for violation of the Great Concordat. Off we go to Prince Mirusiya, to report all this, and pandemonium breaks out; all and sundry drop in on Qutmu for a friendly visit, and we all arrive just in time to see him using Undead in open battle. Lots more arresting followed by sundry and summary impalements.

It's all in "Flamesong", if I recall, and our part will be in my book. Volume Four, if I recall.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

Some questions for you so we can get back to more pleasant subjects, and forget the antics of the Tekumel Weenies.
A. What else can you tell us about some of your more exotic or “remote areas” encounters in Phil’s game? For example, I understand that you visited the Palace of Bassa, King of the Black Ssu, and the City of The Red Tiled Roofs, and the military installation at the South Pole to name just a few. Also, do I remember you saying that a group of Phil’s players traveled to one of the automated stations in orbit around Tekumel? Are there any other places that you may not have journeyed to, but have some inside information on? Any details would be appreciated, such as architecture, unique inhabitants, etc.
B. As far as “game canon” goes what is the current status of Captain Harchar, et.al., The Glorious General, Karin Missum, Baron Ald and Lord Fu Shi’I, etc? Are they still alive in the Tékumel universe? Have they retired and made way for the next generation?
C. Did you ever encounter any of the characters from Phil’s first gaming group from the 50’s as NPC’s? Was the Baron Ald one such former PC turned NPC?
D. If Tsolyanu is like Moghul India, or Ancient Egypt, what would you recommend as a good source of inspiration for Mu'ugalavya? What type of images would be suitable to show to new players in order to establish the feel of the place?


Shemek.

A. Way too long for a post here; you'll have to be patient, as I will Reveal All. There's just a lot of detail...
Yes, we did go to Kashi, Do not punch any buttons. Thank you.

B. Some are, some are not. Tis current time on Tekumel is some forty years after we started playing - old age is a major issue, these days! Again, this is going to be a very long subject to try to tackle.

C. No. They were not a role-playing group; it was much more like 'Risk', then anything else, if the copy of their rules that I have is any indication. Having said that, we did meet a number of their descendants in our adventures. The Shipali clan of Kerunan is still very active, and still pretty powerful. Maybe. There are still a few secrets left...

D. Ming or Qing China. Lots of officials, and everything gets done in quadruplicate - one copy for each of the Four Palaces. Images? Let me think about this, and get back to you; I lean to classical China, myself, as they are pretty formal and 'disciplined' in their architecture. I'd do a Google search for 'classical Chinese architecture', myself.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

Here's another one the Firu baYeker may have told.

The Wax Crocodile

(KING KHUFU sat to hear tales told by his sons regarding the wonders of other days and the doings of magicians. The Prince Khafra stood before him and related the ancient story of the wax crocodile.)

Once upon a time a Pharaoh went towards the temple of the god Ptah. His counsellors and servants accompanied him. It chanced that he paid a visit to the villa of the chief scribe, behind which there was a garden with a stately summer house and a broad artificial lake.

Among those who followed Pharaoh was a handsome youth, and the scribe's wife beheld him with love. Soon afterwards she sent gifts unto him, and they had secret meetings. They spent a day in the summer house and feasted there, and in the evening the youth bathed in the lake.

The chief butler then went to his master the scribe and informed him what had come to pass. The scribe bade the servant to bring a certain magic box, and when he received it he made a small wax crocodile, over which he muttered a spell. He placed it in the hands of the butler, saying: "Cast this image into the lake behind the youth when next he bathes himself "

On another day when the scribe dwelt with Pharaoh, the lovers were together in the summer house, and at eventide the youth went into the lake. The butler stole through the garden, and stealthily he cast into the water the wax image, which was immediately given life. It became a great crocodile that seized the youth suddenly and took him away.

Seven days passed, and then the scribe spoke to the Pharaoh regarding the wonder which had been done, and made request that His Majesty should accompany him to his villa. The Pharaoh did so, and when they both stood beside the lake in the garden the scribe spoke magic words, bidding the crocodile to appear.

As he commanded, so did it do. The great reptile came out of the water carrying the youth in its jaws.

The scribe said: "Lo! it shall do whatever I command to be done."

Said the Pharaoh: "Bid the crocodile to return at once to the lake."

Ere he did that, the scribe touched it, and immediately it became a small image of wax again. The Pharaoh was filled with wonder, and the scribe related unto him all that had happened, while the youth stood waiting.

Said His Majesty unto the crocodile: "Seize the wrongdoer." The wax image was again given life and, clutching the youth, leaped into the lake and disappeared. Nor was it ever seen after that.

Then Pharaoh gave command that the wife of the scribe should be seized. On the north side of the house she was bound to a stake and burned alive, and what remained of her was thrown into the Nile.

Such was the tale told by Khafra. Khufu was well pleased and caused offerings of food and refreshment to be placed in the tombs of the Pharaoh and his wise servant.


Shemek.

Yes!!! Wonderful!!!