Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

He was an odd fellow in many respects. Although he may have been a poor player he sure was a pretty good DM. One thing though, I know for a fact that he would not have allowed those shenanigans in his game. This is why I think his behaviour was a deliberate attempt at wrecking my game. Perhaps it was an attempt to dominate the group and the steer the story in another direction, or maybe he was hoping to get some new players for his group? Maybe he was just being a prick? Sometimes the easiest explanation is the closest to the truth. He definitely was not invited to any future games after this little episode.

Shemek.

I'm still boggled by this guy's actions. I think your possible reasons are accurate - I've seen this kind of thing myself, over time, and I make notes...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

"Most people are booger-eating morons" explains an amazing number of situations.

Oh, very true! I'm still boggled, though...

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

This was a strange situation. To me it seemed as if he were intentionally trying to sabotage the game, although I have no proof of this. For some reason he just couldn�t wrap his head around the fact that he was adventuring in a very old, very traditional society with well established laws and institutions.

That's all the explanation you need, really.
Seriously, I've seen it time and time again. Some people that have played "murderhobos in the great D&D tradition" (not always D&D, but most often), seem to have some kind of "culture shock" when the setting's wheels turn, and grind their characters to dust for behaving like murderhobos.
If they've played with a fudging GM, too, you often hear the line about "them being the heroes", too. Again, speaking from experience!

As the above mentioned player shouted to the City Watchmen "Stick three poles up his arse without any grease!" While another one of the original players so eloquently said to the local Captain after the offending character had been apprehended: �Somethin�s gotta be done about these disgraceful forner rabble. Comin� in the Empire an doin� whatever they wants (noisily spitting on the ground).� While a third player/NPC surreptitiously cast a spell ensuring that the apprehended couldn't talk if interrogated. Amazingly, a magistrate who just happened to be in the area at the time of the arrest (and a follower of Ksarul) was able, after hearing the facts, to quickly and "legally" pronounce judgment: "Captain, have your men deal with this immediately" he officiously commanded. "I will not have it be said that we Tsolyani do not follow the laws of our land even when dealing with barbarians". Funny thing though, later no one could seem to recall who this magistrate was, but all were in agreement who witnessed the events that the accused's silence, when questioned by this most efficient and wise arbiter of the law, obviously indicated his guilt.
Back then my players were heavily involved with certain unknown societies in the Doomed Prince's Temple. Looking back at it now it's actually "funny" how quickly the group adopted the mind set of people whose very lives were a deception. Some of the game sessions from this period of the campaign are very dark indeed. Even though the above mentioned incident was an absolute absurdity, the party's reaction to the event was handled brilliantly.

BTW, your players dealt with it excellently and in-character.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I don't know how many times over the years that I have heard "I'm just playing in character" used as an excuse for very bad playing. Likewise "I'm a hero" as a reason to escape the consequences of his own actions.

Over the years, people have come up with the truism that "I'm playing my character" is no excuse for being obnoxious. It's generally true, but I don't think that's the right reaction.
The right reaction in my book is "no, you're not, unless your character is a homicidal something-pathic idiot...apologies to any genuine idiots that don't share those traits". Then you can give him a version of Shemek hiTankolel's explanation...

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

He was an odd fellow in many respects. Although he may have been a poor player he sure was a pretty good DM. One thing though, I know for a fact that he would not have allowed those shenanigans in his game.

Amazingly, some people are just THAT good at compartmentalization...especially if it has worked with other GMs in the past.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

"Most people are booger-eating morons" explains an amazing number of situations.

+1 and it's also easiest explanation.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Over the years, people have come up with the truism that "I'm playing my character" is no excuse for being obnoxious. It's generally true, but I don't think that's the right reaction.
The right reaction in my book is "no, you're not, unless your character is a homicidal something-pathic idiot...apologies to any genuine idiots that don't share those traits". Then you can give him a version of Shemek hiTankolel's explanation...

You know, I think you've really articulated the truism, here. I think we're all agreed on what counts as the kind of antics that Shemek and his players had to endure, and the kind of really good role-playing that can be pretty obnoxious. I've seen both the former and the latter, and the latter - while it might be annoying at the time - comes to be a treasure to behold. Gronan, for example, has done some truly obnoxious stuff in character, and it was very, very obvious that it was the character - not him. He did a wonderful send-up of the character 'Miles Gloriosus' from "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum" (see YouTube) and we all just roared with laughter as his character dug himself in deeper and deeper. For us, back in the day, that was all part of 'role-playing'; just as 'don't be a dick' was as well...

Originally Posted by AsenRG

1.BTW, your players dealt with it excellently and in-character.

2.Amazingly, some people are just THAT good at compartmentalization...especially if it has worked with other GMs in the past.

1. I'll tell you Asen, those guys when they were on their game, I had to run to keep a step ahead of them. They were all a bunch of extremely smart, very competitive, and well read people. They tried, and used, every trick and tactic in the book to try and "beat me". To them "winning" in D&D was handily defeating everything that I threw at them, in as short a period of time as they could. When we talk about those days they always say do you remember when we defeated that demon in 2 rounds, or when we did this in 3 rounds.

2. I see it at work all of the time. To me it's just strange when people behave this way. I once had another "one session player" who accused me fudging die rolls, because "he always got hit" in combat, which of course, was complete bullshit. Or the other time a player called me a "killer DM" because characters actually died in my game. To which I replied:
"I don't kill the characters. It's the dice that kills the characters".

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

You know, I think you've really articulated the truism, here. I think we're all agreed on what counts as the kind of antics that Shemek and his players had to endure, and the kind of really good role-playing that can be pretty obnoxious. I've seen both the former and the latter, and the latter - while it might be annoying at the time - comes to be a treasure to behold. Gronan, for example, has done some truly obnoxious stuff in character, and it was very, very obvious that it was the character - not him. He did a wonderful send-up of the character 'Miles Gloriosus' from "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum" (see YouTube) and we all just roared with laughter as his character dug himself in deeper and deeper. For us, back in the day, that was all part of 'role-playing'; just as 'don't be a dick' was as well...

Chirine,

Even though as gamers and DM�s we have to occasionally deal with pests, sometimes there�s light in the darkness. The storm clouds part and an absolutely brilliant session is played out by folks who, for a brief moment, become their characters. Like your recent grand gaming session, and the Glorious General�s channelling of Miles Gloriosus, something happened last night that truly demonstrated to me why I like this hobby. Recently I started a new campaign. I think that it�s been about 3 or 4 years since I last tried to run a game. I�ve tried gaming with different individuals, and new groups, but the results have always been the same: a couple of game sessions, and the campaign is quietly folded away never again to see the light of day. This time I was determined to set up a regular campaign. I decided to go back to basics, and a major part of that was getting as many of the original members of my old group together as I could, and going back to Tekumel. It took me about half a year to lay the groundwork, and get the commitments from the players. All this work and persistence finally paid off! Yesterday the group clicked, and it was like I was transported back to 1985. Although only two of the original players are playing they really tapped into the old vibe that was such a basic component of all those sessions we gamed 30+ years ago. The slipping into character and staying there was a joy to behold. One of the �old guys� � characters got deafened after coming out the worst for wear in a combat with a Hli�ir. I told the player that he had become deaf, and without missing a beat he turned to the rest of the party and at the top of his voice said �WHAT! WHAT DID YOU SAY? SPEAK UP, I CAN�T HEAR YOU!� I almost fell off my chair laughing, to which he replied: �WHAT�S SO FUNNY? I THINK THAT THING DEAFENED ME! He kept this up for another three hours, always in character. Sneaking up on things wasn�t really an option until they managed to keep him quite. These are the kind of games I remember having �back in the day�. Everyone played their character the way it was supposed to be played, and there was a tonne of laughter at the table most of the time.

Similar to what you used to experience with Phil and the Thursday Night Group.

Shemek

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

Even though as gamers and DM’s we have to occasionally deal with pests, sometimes there’s light in the darkness. The storm clouds part and an absolutely brilliant session is played out by folks who, for a brief moment, become their characters. Like your recent grand gaming session, and the Glorious General’s channelling of Miles Gloriosus, something happened last night that truly demonstrated to me why I like this hobby. Recently I started a new campaign. I think that it’s been about 3 or 4 years since I last tried to run a game. I’ve tried gaming with different individuals, and new groups, but the results have always been the same: a couple of game sessions, and the campaign is quietly folded away never again to see the light of day. This time I was determined to set up a regular campaign. I decided to go back to basics, and a major part of that was getting as many of the original members of my old group together as I could, and going back to Tekumel. It took me about half a year to lay the groundwork, and get the commitments from the players. All this work and persistence finally paid off! Yesterday the group clicked, and it was like I was transported back to 1985. Although only two of the original players are playing they really tapped into the old vibe that was such a basic component of all those sessions we gamed 30+ years ago. The slipping into character and staying there was a joy to behold. One of the “old guys’ ” characters got deafened after coming out the worst for wear in a combat with a Hli’ir. I told the player that he had become deaf, and without missing a beat he turned to the rest of the party and at the top of his voice said “WHAT! WHAT DID YOU SAY? SPEAK UP, I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” I almost fell off my chair laughing, to which he replied: “WHAT’S SO FUNNY? I THINK THAT THING DEAFENED ME! He kept this up for another three hours, always in character. Sneaking up on things wasn’t really an option until they managed to keep him quite. These are the kind of games I remember having “back in the day”. Everyone played their character the way it was supposed to be played, and there was a tonne of laughter at the table most of the time.

Similar to what you used to experience with Phil and the Thursday Night Group.

Shemek

This. This is what I live for, in my gaming, and why I have all this crap in the basement (and out in the shed). This is when the magic works, and everybody slips the bonds of their present reality and we step forth on the path of wonder.

Laughter at the table. Does this ruin immersion? No, in my aged opinion; it tell me that we're having fun.

I've been invited out to a game with the original Blackmoor players, and I'm debating going. It's all the early 1970s guys, and I don't really know many of them. And, I don't want 'serious art form'; I want to laugh a lot, and enjoy my time with my friends. We'll see, I guess...

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Ha!!! Forgive. My humblest apologies to Lord Bren...I hope there will be no need to take this matter any further!!!

No need. We're cool.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

This was a strange situation. To me it seemed as if he were intentionally trying to sabotage the game, although I have no proof of this.

Sometimes the simplest solution is correct. This may have been one of those times.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

This. This is what I live for, in my gaming, and why I have all this crap in the basement (and out in the shed). This is when the magic works, and everybody slips the bonds of their present reality and we step forth on the path of wonder.

Laughter at the table. Does this ruin immersion? No, in my aged opinion; it tell me that we're having fun.

I've been invited out to a game with the original Blackmoor players, and I'm debating going. It's all the early 1970s guys, and I don't really know many of them. And, I don't want 'serious art form'; I want to laugh a lot, and enjoy my time with my friends. We'll see, I guess...

Do it Chirine, what have you got to lose? If it's not fun then you can always bugger off at any time. Besides, this could be the beginning of a regular game with a group of like-minded individuals. Will the Glorious General be attending? Anyway, I'd go if presented with a similar opportunity.
(Clink - the sound of two Qirgals being dropped on the table. )

Shemek.

You know, memory is funny. I remember doing my portrayal of Miles Gloriosus, but I DON'T remember what I did or why. Usually some event happens that triggers the explanation.

And, honestly, despite what some would say, experience has taught me that MOST people think I have good comedic skills (there's always one...). So, when I try to be funny, I AM funny. I also have a quite good sense of comedic timing.

What makes a character like Miles Gloriosus funny is the disconnect between reality; even as the situation goes further and further into the soup, he is more and more convinced that he is charming the women, awing the men, routing the foe, and frightening the sheep. And the greater the disconnect between his words and actions and the actual situation, the funnier it is.

Dang, I wish I could remember the details! Fortunately I'm sure Chirine took notes and we'll see it in his book.