Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by AsenRG

That's just my take on it, Uncle. It's not the ultimate truth, nor do I ever pretend it is.

And yes, funny enough, high-power characters are easier to drive away from stuff you don't want them to meddle with, just show them a shiny.

Understood; very accurate,though!

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Uncle,

I saw the McAuslan book for a great price somewhere. I just have to find it again. As for the "Flashman" books, I'm a sucker for great cover art! Thanks again. Back to my travels...Take care.

H:0)
PS I love the way your Tsu'urum's floors turned out! Great job. I can't wait to see what you fill it with...

Great! Keep looking - it's worth it.

Thank you for the compliment! This was a fun little project, and I really enjoyed getting it done. I'm still dithering over varnishing the paper with a matte varnish or not - I'll see what I have in stock, and go from there. This is the kind of thing that can add a lot of a game, if it suits your play style, and is quick and easy to make.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

What is the consensus about using NPCs to "guide" players actions.
Providing correct options and answers to the situations and puzzles that confront the players?

The consensus seems to be that players don't enjoy that sort of game. And the more guiding and solving is done by NPCs the less players tend to like it.

Should an effort be made to "save the game" by NPC intervention?

(1) No.

(2) Save the game from what?

Are the days of "win or lose on your own merit" long past?

(1) A lot of things in an RPG aren't a simple case of win or lose.

(2) No.

How do you feel playing in a game that if you really get in over your head the GM will save you?

Somewhere in the neighborhood of annoyed and/or bored.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

What is the consensus about using NPCs to "guide" players actions.
Providing correct options and answers to the situations and puzzles that confront the players?

Should an effort be made to "save the game" by NPC intervention?

Are the days of "win or lose on your own merit" long past?

How do you feel playing in a game that if you really get in over your head the GM will save you?

EPT's "Save or Die" type of rules make random chance deadly.
=

I think that you bring up some valid questions, and here is a very long reply.

In my personal experience any one who has DM'ed a long running campaign has had, on occasion, to rely upon an NPC to advance the plot and sometimes this may be a subtle nudge to guide the party on to the right path. Unless I am mistaken the role of Firu baYeker, in Phil’s game, served this purpose. Now I don’t advocate having an NPC standing in the wings ready to provide the answer to the riddle that will save the day, or show them where all the traps are in the corridor. This is pointless, and one would have to ask themselves what’s the point of having a gaming group if the DM is going present both the challenge and solution without giving the players the chance try and solve the problem on their own? However, in my opinion I think that subtle, and I mean really subtle (read minimal), clues and directions are an integral part of any game, but just like cake a piece is great, but eating a whole cake at one sitting is not so great.

Yes and no. The only way that I could conceive of “‘save(ing) the game’ by NPC intervention” would be if the game were going to be destroyed due to my actions, either intentionally or as a result of my ignorance. For example, if the party are entitled a Saving Throw and I either refuse to let them have one or I don’t know that they are supposed to get one, and this leads to them being destroyed, then in all conscience, and in the spirit of fair play I would have to have some kind of intervention. However, if they are destroyed as a result of their own actions, stupidity, inattention, etc., well, then so be it. Shit happens.

Win or lose, I guess depends on how you want to define these terms within the context of the game. For me, personally, everything that the party achieves is down to their own merits. My role is and has always been to be an impartial presenter of the story, and controller of the antagonists. Any success enjoyed or loss suffered has been due to the actions of the players.

Again, like I mentioned above, I present the situation in an unbiased manner, and if a player gets into a situation where they are over their heads well so be it. I will never maliciously place them there. I remember once I had a very experienced player who was new to Tekumel. His character was a foreigner in Jakalla (kind of a barbarian in a boat), and I and the rest of the group spent some time giving him an overview of what Tsolyanu was like, the type of society, etc., He refused to accept the notion that in such a well ordered society one cannot walk around like it’s a typical D&D frontier town. He left the foreigner’s quarter (without permission), robbed and assaulted some wealthy individuals, publicly defaced a temple of Vimuhla, slandered the religious institutions as whole, and tried to take on the city guard. He was quickly subdued, and summarily impaled by the local captain of the city guard. He complained bitterly about how stupid the situation was that I “presented” him with, and that there was no way that his character had even a slight chance of survival. The fact that his character’s demise was totally of his own doing, and that he intentionally put himself into the situation where his guy was going to executed, after being warned by the other players that what he was doing was not a good idea was irrelevant to the player.

I am not sure what type of random chance you are specifically referring to. Do you mean Saving Throws, or are you referring to random encounters in general? I personally think that there should always be a chance of a character dieing in a game. After all, the same rules apply to the NPC’s and monsters. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Shemek.

Absolutely not should NPC's "save" the "game."

The game is whatever happens. If the players make a bad choice and all the PCs die, so be it.

And like Bren said, "save" it from what? Once you start talking like that you are nearing the idea of the referee deciding how things "should" go, which notion should be consigned to the corrupted, worm-ridden filth of Sarku's lowest hells.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

At $2.44 for the complete McAuslan stories, I think I made a good deal!!! Thanks

H;0)

And there you go! And what's even better was that the author got bunches of letters from veterans all over the world, who told him that they had had the same things happen to them. I would venture to say that this kind of thing has been going on since the first Sumerian NCO had to deal with his very own Dirtiest Soldier In The World...