Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

In the same issue where the interview with Phil was, I saw there was a module in which you are mentioned. It says that one of Dhichune's political appointees, some Ito woman, denounced you and tried to have you deposed/impaled. Was this something that happened in game or was it "artistic licence" by the module designer?

Shemek

This was Phil having one of his periodic throw-his-toys-out-of-the-pram temper tantrums. He'd sold us down the river to Different Worlds, effectively killing his own publishing company Tekumel Games. All of us, who were doing the work of keeping the thing (and Tekumel itself) afloat, handed in our resignations. We still gamed with him, but all the creative work stopped dead. Different Worlds soon found out that without us, there was nothing in the pipeline, and the money stopped coming in. Phil, as usual, blamed me for this and killed Chirine, his wife, and infant twins in a fit of pique. I simply laughed, and reminded him that this was a game and not real life. I got on with my life, kept running my own campaign for another five years, and when we started the new group in 2002 we just picked up where we'd left off.

As Gronan mentioned, Phil could confuse the game room with real life on occasion, and this was one of them. There was a very strong backlash from Tekumel fans who knew me and what I'd been doing for Tekumel, and we lost a lot of very good people as a result; Phil backtracked pretty quickly, but the damage had been done. Phil had a habit of cutting off his nose to spite his face, and it made for some very poorly thought-out decisions.

So, Chirine and his family continue to live comfortably, and he now sends a new generation of adventurers off on new adventures. It's all in the book...

From AsenRG:
Interesting; why would it be harder in Livyanu? I had assumed the exact opposite, because of the many disparate gods and goddesses who keep what demons serve them in secret. Maybe I was wrong, and thus went too easy on the player?

Because the Livyani as so steeped in sorcery, they tend to be a little harder to fool on these subjects. If one can pass as a demon in Livyanu, they can do it anywhere. Except around Lord Fu Shi, I'd expect.

I'd settle for the big room as well. Obviously other people want different things for reasons unknown to me!

Agreed. These days, here in the US, you need to have a dealers' room, maybe a costume show, and stuff like that to attract any attention.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Well, I'm not sure what a "boardgame cafe" is other than what is implied by the simple meaning of the words, but I've never seen one here in the USA. There might be some somewhere in this land of a third of a billion people.

In the US there has been an increasing trend towards decreasing socialization (see "Bowling Alone,") so a US "convention" has to be more than "let's meet up at someplace we have to pay money for." If friends are going to gather to play games they'll simply do it in somebody's house. Conventions offer a chance to meet new gamers and try new games, as well as the "dealers' room" where you can buy everything from dice to swords.

The smallest convention I know of is the one-day "ReCon" of Minneapolis, which basically provides a big room with big tables for miniatures gamers. But miniatures gamers are odd ducks even in the gaming world. Quack.

A boardgame cafe is a place where you go, pay an entry tax (I read in another thread it's $5 in the USA, often is 5 BGN here - which amounts to slightly less than $3 by current forex rates) and get access to the games they have, and a table to play. You usually go in a group, everyone pays, and you get to play any game that you haven't purchased. Some people use them for RPG sessions, because as long as you're there and playing, they don't care what you're playing (though strip poker is right out, I suspect, but we haven't tried to see ).
Of course, they're also selling refreshments and sometimes, food. So don't bring your sandwiches; but apart from the entry fee, it's just as expensive as spending a day with friends in a coffee shop. So I consider it a good deal - houses here are not as big as they are in the USA, sometimes there just isn't a spare room (and kids tend to lose your dice).
You often can buy boardgames and dice in boardgame cafes, too. So in a way, that's a dealer room, just no RPG dealers (and no sword dealers).

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

This was Phil having one of his periodic throw-his-toys-out-of-the-pram temper tantrums. He'd sold us down the river to Different Worlds, effectively killing his own publishing company Tekumel Games. All of us, who were doing the work of keeping the thing (and Tekumel itself) afloat, handed in our resignations. We still gamed with him, but all the creative work stopped dead. Different Worlds soon found out that without us, there was nothing in the pipeline, and the money stopped coming in. Phil, as usual, blamed me for this and killed Chirine, his wife, and infant twins in a fit of pique. I simply laughed, and reminded him that this was a game and not real life. I got on with my life, kept running my own campaign for another five years, and when we started the new group in 2002 we just picked up where we'd left off.

As Gronan mentioned, Phil could confuse the game room with real life on occasion, and this was one of them. There was a very strong backlash from Tekumel fans who knew me and what I'd been doing for Tekumel, and we lost a lot of very good people as a result; Phil backtracked pretty quickly, but the damage had been done. Phil had a habit of cutting off his nose to spite his face, and it made for some very poorly thought-out decisions.

So, Chirine and his family continue to live comfortably, and he now sends a new generation of adventurers off on new adventures. It's all in the book...

Interesting - which book details these events, and the subsequent (I suspect) revivification? I suspect I remember it, but I'd like to have confirmation.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

From AsenRG:
Interesting; why would it be harder in Livyanu? I had assumed the exact opposite, because of the many disparate gods and goddesses who keep what demons serve them in secret. Maybe I was wrong, and thus went too easy on the player?

Because the Livyani as so steeped in sorcery, they tend to be a little harder to fool on these subjects. If one can pass as a demon in Livyanu, they can do it anywhere. Except around Lord Fu Shi, I'd expect.

Oh, that.
She didn't fool those closest to her. They pronounced her a demon in order to explain why a non-Livyani is getting the special treatment and respect. And I guess that's a difference between my Tekumel and the Original Tekumel: I'm incorporated the Tibetan saying that "If there's faith, a dog's tooth will start producing miracles" as an universal law.

Why? Because, as far as I can say, magic on Tekumel depends on interacting with the nano-sphere. The nano-entities/AIs will react to actions that resemble those they've been taught to care about - after all, they were created - and react to intent, too. That's why rituals work for believers better, and require exacting repetition; furthermore, some theories say that it's why rituals even work - they just produce the required uniform reactions in the observers...

Is that how Original Tekumel works? I suspect not, but that was the best approximation I was able to come up with for why technology allows spellcasting! So, I guess it's actually following Phil's advice on Making Tekumel Your Own.

I'd settle for the big room as well. Obviously other people want different things for reasons unknown to me!

Agreed. These days, here in the US, you need to have a dealers' room, maybe a costume show, and stuff like that to attract any attention.

Well, only anime cons have all of these around here; and they feature no RPGs, or just a session or two if you're lucky. Different situation, I guess.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

A boardgame cafe is a place where you go, pay an entry tax (I read in another thread it's $5 in the USA, often is 5 BGN here - which amounts to slightly less than $3 by current forex rates) and get access to the games they have, and a table to play. You usually go in a group, everyone pays, and you get to play any game that you haven't purchased. Some people use them for RPG sessions, because as long as you're there and playing, they don't care what you're playing (though strip poker is right out, I suspect, but we haven't tried to see ).
Of course, they're also selling refreshments and sometimes, food. So don't bring your sandwiches; but apart from the entry fee, it's just as expensive as spending a day with friends in a coffee shop. So I consider it a good deal - houses here are not as big as they are in the USA, sometimes there just isn't a spare room (and kids tend to lose your dice).
You often can buy boardgames and dice in boardgame cafes, too. So in a way, that's a dealer room, just no RPG dealers (and no sword dealers).

Sounds interesting. It would be a great way to try games. I wonder if the US has many? This part of it sure doesn't.

House size would be a fascinating issue to do a sociology project on. Here in the US of A, a 2000 square foot house with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms or bathroom/half bath (toilet and sink) plus kitchen, living room, dining room, is considered "moderate size." Then you get the Baby Boomer "empty nesters" in their late 50s -- the house is paid off, the kids are married and on their own, the dog is dead, and you've never made more money... building "retirement homes" of 2500 or 3000 square feet.

It's had a noticeable effect on model railroad clubs in some parts of the country, too; why join a club when you've got 2000 square feet of basement to do as you please with? Just invite your friends over to help you build.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

A boardgame cafe is a place where you go, pay an entry tax (I read in another thread it's $5 in the USA, often is 5 BGN here - which amounts to slightly less than $3 by current forex rates) and get access to the games they have, and a table to play.

I've never seen of one of these cafes - nor an ad for same. I suspect they are either a really new thing in the US or a very rare thing.

My info for the boardgame caf�s in the USA is necessarily second hand. That said, they were mentioned in another thread on this forum, the same where someone accused Gronan of not having disposable income to buy newer games!

All I know is that here even boardgame shops are adopting this model.

And yes, your moderate house is twice the size of an above average house here. Fascinating topic indeed.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

And yes, your moderate house is twice the size of an above average house here. Fascinating topic indeed.

I'm certainly guilty as charged. But I need a bigger house because my refrigerator is twice the size of the one I had in England and the washer and dryer take up 5-6 times the space of the single unit in my flat there. And tiny houses have tiny driveways and my wife owns a big, red, Ford pickup truck and of course we have cars, because you get anywhere outside a major city without one.

Also Edmonton is in Canada. Technically, Canada is still a separate country. More so now, in some ways, since 9-11.

From AsenRG:
Interesting - which book details these events, and the subsequent (I suspect) revivification? I suspect I remember it, but I'd like to have confirmation.

"To Serve The Petal Throne", end of Book Five. The incident is part of the historical record, so it's in the book.

Oh, that.
She didn't fool those closest to her. They pronounced her a demon in order to explain why a non-Livyani is getting the special treatment and respect. And I guess that's a difference between my Tekumel and the Original Tekumel: I'm incorporated the Tibetan saying that "If there's faith, a dog's tooth will start producing miracles" as an universal law.

Why? Because, as far as I can say, magic on Tekumel depends on interacting with the nano-sphere. The nano-entities/AIs will react to actions that resemble those they've been taught to care about - after all, they were created - and react to intent, too. That's why rituals work for believers better, and require exacting repetition; furthermore, some theories say that it's why rituals even work - they just produce the required uniform reactions in the observers...

Is that how Original Tekumel works? I suspect not, but that was the best approximation I was able to come up with for why technology allows spellcasting! So, I guess it's actually following Phil's advice on Making Tekumel Your Own.

Well, I think it actually follows what Phil set forth. Rituals are part of the 'wetware' that makes the technology work; if one does 'this', then 'that' happens. Nobody really knows why magic works, and - aside from scholars - only cares that it does.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Sounds interesting. It would be a great way to try games. I wonder if the US has many? This part of it sure doesn't.

House size would be a fascinating issue to do a sociology project on. Here in the US of A, a 2000 square foot house with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms or bathroom/half bath (toilet and sink) plus kitchen, living room, dining room, is considered "moderate size." Then you get the Baby Boomer "empty nesters" in their late 50s -- the house is paid off, the kids are married and on their own, the dog is dead, and you've never made more money... building "retirement homes" of 2500 or 3000 square feet.

It's had a noticeable effect on model railroad clubs in some parts of the country, too; why join a club when you've got 2000 square feet of basement to do as you please with? Just invite your friends over to help you build.

Out of the 2300 total square feet on three levels, I have 450 square feet devoted to gaming and there used to be 225 devoted to the railway. I did invite my friends, but nobody came. Most UK layouts are portable, and get set up down the clubrooms.

Originally Posted by Bren

I've never seen of one of these cafes - nor an ad for same. I suspect they are either a really new thing in the US or a very rare thing.

FFG's Event Center is just like this, but you don't have to pay a fee. They have a huge library of games that can be played, and free WiFi as well as a big room full of tables - with miniatures and scenery for rent, at very cheap rates; they charge to make sure the figures stay in-house. They make their money with the food and drink, and also through the free advertising for their products. It's usually pretty full, as it has become a destination for people to go to - including couples and families, as well. See also:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/e...-games-center/