Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Rincewind1

You shouldn't. Good comes with the bad, bad comes with the good. It's important for people to know that the gaming legends weren't just merry grognards with vikings hats, and everyone always played the best, the lost golden pioneer days of gaming, but that they also had issues and fuck ups at the table all too reminiscent to us.

Reading this thread, I enjoyed both the descriptions of great moments in gaming, as well as taking a look at the absurd, but all too human, screw ups.

And sorry, but I agree with Opa on the issue of GMing. 20 years old is past adolescence. If this happened in first 3 - 4 years, it'd be understandable.

Thanks for your comments! I'm trying to tell our story from our perspective as our characters - we played these people for so long, they felt like our alter egos.

I'll let somebody else do the 'Secret History'; I lived those events, and I would intensely prefer not to have to live through them again. I was interviewed a while back by one of the documentary filmmakers who are doing films on the early days of D&D and gaming; he was genuinely astonished that nobody's bothered to wander through my brain and my archives. Me, I thought that it was a little traumatic; I had a high pressure event during the shoot.

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

Ok, found it, it's in Part 2/Vol 1 Coming of Age in Tekumel, section B13 "Peek-a-boo, I see you!", p71, left column near the bottom, concerning the interment of Hirkane Tlakotani:

"At the mouth of a semi circular passage more priests await. These are attired in vestments of silver brocade, and upon the breast of each is a black circle with a central round dot that flickers and changes colours as you look at it. Who these people are is a mystery to you. Lord Hnalla's delegation recites words in unison in an unknown tongue, and the strange priests silently retreat into their corridor."

And there you are; there are a lot of mysteries floating around, especially around the Petal Throne. Listening to the tape, I was flabberghasted to hear that the clerics of The One Other are part of the rituals surrounding the enthronement. Phil can still surprise, even when you think you know 'for sure'...

Originally Posted by Big Andy

So, the One Other is Dr. Manhattan? I wondered where he went after he left Earth. Also helps explain why he helped in the fight against Ksarul (and my fascination with the One Other).

Sort of on the subject, I recall on one of the city maps (don't remember which one and don't have my stuff at hand) that there us a Temple of the One Other standing near the normal temples but is listed as Sealed. Why would it be sealed instead of leveled/destroyed?

Found it. Bethorm, map of Katalal, location 98

Good question; I suspect that the Great Concordat is in play here. It's like the difference between the Gods In Lankhmar, and the Gods Of Lankhmar...

Originally Posted by d(sqrt(-1))

Well the dot and circle is a pretty old symbol (apparently it's called a "circumpunct"). Dr Manhattan has a hydrogen atom on his forehead, so he's got an extra dot...

It did occur to me (probably irrelevantly) that the symbol could be a reference to the Tubeways - it's a bit like looking down a long tunnel, with either a light at the end, or an oncoming vehicle(?).

Interesting point about the Sealed temple.

Funny you should mention that; When we first encountered The One Other in person, the being was down a long, dark, tunnel; we simply spoke up, not wanting to see what was at the other end of the tunnel.

A Target store, maybe?

Originally Posted by Hrugga

A thousand thanks Great Lord!!! I would be an honor and great pleasure!!! May your generosity reflect upon you and yours a thousand times over!!! Your love of Tekumel truely shows through.

I'm sure one day, I will try to make the trek up north. Of course Great Lord, I will make a request well in advance. Be well.

H:0)

You're very welcome. We'll be here...

From Gronan of Simmerya:

The real pivot on this (and Chirine will back me, I believe) is that in the mid 80s after the D&D bubble popped and AGI ground to a halt, Phil pretty much retreated to his basement and stopped paying attention to what "the rest of the gaming world" was doing.

Yep. He became pretty isolated, even from the locals. It's why I would up doing my two campaigns; there was enough demand for Tekumel gaming here in the Twin Cities to support the two large (8 to 12 people) groups that I ran. About the only 'outside contact' Phil really had was with his friends in the Society of Ancients; he kept up a pretty lively conversation with them.

Actually, that's been very common for a LOT of us "first generation"; having re-established contact with Dave Wesley, Mike Carr, Tim Kask, Jim Ward, et al over the last few years at GaryCon, a hell of a lot of us old grognards just retired to our country villas in the mid to late 80s and said 'arseholes to the lot of 'em.' I'm not the only one who pretty much dropped out from 1985 to 2005 or so.

Very true.

Hell, I go to GaryCon because I can play the games I used to play with the people I used to play with. Yes, I have played some newer stuff, but I just don't like it as much.

Agreed. It seems to be lacking something for me, as well. No idea why.

Also, all four of the events I played in were historical (counting Brauntstein.) I reffed one D&D session, ran one Tekumel miniatures battle to celebrate Dave Sutherland, and ran a CHAINMAIL battle. I played TRACTICS, Don't Give Up The Ship, Braunstein, and Cavaliers and Roundheads.

I can see why Chirine likes the ECW so much.

If one is gaming with experts in the period, and not with experts in the rules, you can get a really fun time - the historical periods are full of the kind of thing that Dave and Gary tapped into with their Greyhawk and Blackmoor.

Ah, the great agony when the cry was heard over the game table:

"THE PUCKLE GUN IS JAMMED!!!"

From Gronan of Simmerya:I was never 100% sure just what it was Phil wanted, and truthfully, I'm starting to think he was never 100% sure either.

I'd agree with that. It made our lives at AGI difficult. Personally, I think if he'd stayed with the novels, and stayed out of RPGs, he'd have been a lot happier.

Also, and forgive me if I've mentioned this before, but in the early 80s the British Phil Barker did a US and Canada tour. After gaming at the Little Tin Soldier Shop in Minneapolis he went to Winnipeg, where he said to my Canadian gamer/SCA friends "Those people in Minneapolis would rather argue than play the game."

It was amazing to watch the culture shock, on both sides. UK Phil thought that the idea was to push lead, and the locals thought he'd written his rules so they could argue over them.

It has always been a splintered and fractious community. Imperium Publishing, anybody?

And then some. The Twin Cities are littered with the corpses of Bright Ideas In Gaming that have gone horribly wrong.

I cannot think of an adequate way to express my agreement with this. I regret that I didn't know then what I know about business, about pricing, about gaming, and about the "gaming industry." Adventure Games really WAS born under an ill-favored star; it was the worst possible time to start a game company... just months before the D&D bubble popped.

The looks on their faces the day the TSR royalty check didn't come told that story all too well. I had followed Gordy's advice: Rule #3 Of Being A Successful Author - "Don't quit your day job." Which may be why I wound up doing better then most of the AGI crowd...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Ummm, I think the Emperor just ordered my legion to march to Kashi, gotta go...

The Nyemesel Islands are lovely, this time of year. Nice sandy beaches, warm breezes, cool drinks, and hardly any Akho around. Harchar's at the dock, and can offer a nice package deal for you, Nlel, and the troops.

Whoops! Look at the time! Gotta go! (Exits Katalal in a hurry, Stage Right...)

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I heartily support you in this. Much like my memories of the early years of D&D, I see no reason to dwell on the unpleasant. Shakespeare may have said "the evil that men do lives on, the good is oft interred with their bones," but there's no reason we have to participate in that.

Agreed. I've got over 123,000 words done, another 177, 000 to go, and I've barely scratched the surface. And I've got lots of other stuff on tap; lovely day here, with +77F and a nice breeze, and I got to cut stock for several projects - including my greatest and very bestest game, which will surpass anything I have ever done. Period.

I love my table saw.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

To diverge this discussion ...
It is practical to try to run a game in the style of days gone by if the players didn't play in those times?

Are there just too many "modern" expectations to overcome?
Is a 'hostile world" no longer acceptable to modern players?
Do the player characters always have to be given a "pass" when they don't assume things will go against them? The assumption being...
"We are the Heroes. Of course we will Win in the End."
=

I think it is; I still run my games the way I did year ago, jjst with better technology. When people play in them, they love the play style - because it's like nothing that they've ever seen before. Never had to deal with any of the things you mentioned, either; I think I've been lucky.

Getting people to show up on time for games, though...