Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

It's good to see that we have a few games on the go here.

Greentongue
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Timidly raises hand.

When's it set? Are you keeping to the "official" story line?

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Big Andy Not a pure Tekumel campaign exactly but heavily heavily heavily inspired by. The DNA is probably 75% Tekumel, or greater.

Cool. That's how the current incarnation of my game initially started out.

AsenRG
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Me too, roughly "contemporary" era, but set in Lyvianu. A character even briefly glimpsed lord Chirine ba Kal during one of his visits.
During this time, a PC unwittingly helped a surge in the Lyviani campaign for "pacification" of the Tsolei isles, and the sending of Tsolyani "advisors" (by chasing away a spy). Then there was a timeskip of almost 20 years, because visiting other dimensions might do that to you. As a bonus, now the same character's son is a grown-up and got in the Navy!
Now they are in the midst of a war campaign, with the usual chaos. And a friend has recently been kidnapped by an inimical race. They might have to mount a raid to extract her.
All in all, it's much fun, just don't ask me what system I'm using, because I suspect the answer will make for a huge off-topic discussion!

That sounds great! I plan on having the group catching a glimpse of Lord Chirine, and the Glorious General, if they ever get to that time line
System, Shmystem. I use what ever works to fairly resolve what is being portrayed. I guess my core rules are a combination of EPT, and AD&D 1st ed. (with a little bit of 2nd thrown in). I have been gradually trying to get away from rule systems for at least the last 5 years or so, but still encounter resistance from they guys. Ideally I would like to use the type of system Phil employed in his game, as described on the Tekumel website, supplemented with EPT/AD&D for larger battles, or other very specific encounter types as needed.

Hrugga
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Cool!!! I envy all of you!!! I guess I will need to make a campagin happen for me!!! No regular Tekumel gaming groups that I know of close by...

Set up a "regular" game, and work in Tekumel gradually if the players are adverse to it initially, or unfamiliar with the world. My group fought me tooth and nail when I first started to bring in large elements of Tekumel into my gaming world. They were more comfortable with the Tolkienesque, REH, and Moorcock universes. Tekumel was too weird and hard for them to "properly" enjoy. "The names are unpronounceable" one of my old players once said. Well, instead of making the game a linguistics or anthropology course I played it like I wanted it to be: a good old fashioned sword and sorcery romp. The players have not adventured on my original game world for decades! Those original characters are now fully integrated into Tsolyani society, having worked their way up into senior and respectable positions and clans, respectively, within the Imperium.
You, or perhaps someone on this thread, could also set up a PBEM game. I would certainly be in for that.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

No, I am not. The game campaign that I started in 2002 has been shut down, due to the surge in political factions amongst the players - one of these factions were the people I had to pay $800 in legal fees to get rid of. The last few years, I found that I was spending far more time chasing people down to play then I was actually doing the games; so, what I've done is to pass that job over to all the people who told me that a) I was doing it all wrong, b) that I was including the wrong kind of people, and c) I was not fit to represent their Tekumel - I am not 'metrosexual' enough, I was told.

So, the game room sits quietly, awaiting the next group of adventurers. If somebody wanted to organize up a game group, I'll be delighted to run a campaign for them. I paint and I write, and am enjoying being alive. I'm patient; I've been here before...

Now that's a tragic waste. But, as I am sure you well know, you are better off rid of them. $800 is a good chunk of cash, but a small amount to have pay for peace of mind, and freedom from stupidity.
This PC monkey business wears thin after a second or two. My response to these type of people is: "Go and f*** yourselves, and leave me the f*** alone! The store is now closed and don't let the door knob hit you on the way out".
If I were even close to Minni I would take you up on that offer. A 14+ hour drive is not something I feel like doing anymore. Did you consider, trying to get a new group together, or maybe some type of PBEM game? Like I said to Hrugga, I would be in for something like that. Maybe we could get the Glorious General involved as well

Shemek

Originally Posted by Hrugga

We should plan a field trip to the Workbench for a weekend tour and game!!! That would be a dream come true!!! With Uncle's permission of course...

H:0)

With advanced planning, and Lord Chirine's acquiescence, maybe...

Shemek

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I'm quite the opposite of "metrosexual", myself. If anyone wants me to shave in order to run a game for them, he or she is free to leave and find another group.

I have been called many things in my life, but I can honestly say that no one has ever accused me of this. :rotfl::rotfl: As I told my wife long ago, the beard is not negotiable. Although, as a concession to peace and prosperity, etc, etc, I did shave it down to a goatee.

Shemek
(The somewhat bearded)

Wow, that's some ugly, and personal, PvP power gaming.

As GM I would pause and ask if they really want to go that far, because that's just asking for a massive shift in table mood. That should have been an OOC talk way before. Stables of alternate characters and general setting turbulence should have nipped the potential for this level of coup de grace in the bud.

I dig PvP if it works for the campaign premise and table, but I don't let vicious total victories occur. (Because mostly I don't believe in total victories, as "circumstance" is normally so ingenious to thwart best layed plans and all.) With random events and plentiful NPC antagonists most PvP campagins should never feel so controlled and malleable so as to get to that point.

I'll flat out say it, bad and lazy GMing -- particulary being led by the nose by more domineering players -- had to be a factor at that point.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

With advanced planning, and Lord Chirine's acquiescence, maybe...

Shemek

No problem. I don't mind sending Uncle any and all pertinent information in regard to myself. Alas, I'm not free till late October...But as you say with the proper refrences and introductions, those able should meet for a weekend of Tekumel fun!!!

As far as a PBEM game goes...I'm in. It may end up a snail game, but you gotta do, what you gotta do for Tekumel!!!

H:0)

PS I'm like a Tekumel junky, I need it. Crave it...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Phil's most serious failing as a game master was that he let the "reality" of Tekumel override the players' fun. Not in the sense of "this game is too hard," but in the example of Vrisa, for instance, not putting his foot down and saying "No. You do NOT have the right to ruin somebody else's fun."

As I said above, if everybody is OK with it, what X number of consenting adults do at their gaming table is their business.

But NOBODY has the right to ruin anybody else's fun. If somebody says "But that's what the world is like" or "but that's what my character would do," punch them in the nadgers so hard their nose bleeds.

If your character is an asshole it's because you CHOSE to make them an asshole.

You know what? I have to unsay the entire message above.

You see, I have been guilty of "anachronistic thinking." I am evaluating Phil's reffing of TWENTY YEARS AGO by the standards of today.

Let me put it in perspective for you. I played in Tekumel from 1974 until 1985. 1985 is ELEVEN YEARS AFTER THE FIRST PUBLICATION OF D&D.

The events with Kathy that Chirine described are "mid 1990s." That's 20 YEARS AGO. And twenty years after D&D first appeared.

Gaming was still in its adolescence, if not infancy. Most of the terms we've been bandying about simply didn't exist as ideas. Shit on toast almighty, this is when "Internet' meant using a dialup modem to access America Onlline.

Phil was reffing by the standard wisdom of the day: the referee is a neutral arbiter, and the players can do what the players want. If that results in player vs player conflict, it is up to the referee to be neutral. If some of the players don't like it, it is for the players to sort out among themselves.

Hell, it's only the last five years or so that I've seen the notion of "Be as explicit as possible about expectations" get any traction. It's twenty years after these events, and people are STILL trying to figure out how it all works.

We are simply being very unfair, and indulging in sloppy thinking.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

You know what? I have to unsay the entire message above.

You see, I have been guilty of "anachronistic thinking." I am evaluating Phil's reffing of TWENTY YEARS AGO by the standards of today.

Let me put it in perspective for you. I played in Tekumel from 1974 until 1985. 1985 is ELEVEN YEARS AFTER THE FIRST PUBLICATION OF D&D.

The events with Kathy that Chirine described are "mid 1990s." That's 20 YEARS AGO. And twenty years after D&D first appeared.

Gaming was still in its adolescence, if not infancy. Most of the terms we've been bandying about simply didn't exist as ideas. Shit on toast almighty, this is when "Internet' meant using a dialup modem to access America Onlline.

Phil was reffing by the standard wisdom of the day: the referee is a neutral arbiter, and the players can do what the players want. If that results in player vs player conflict, it is up to the referee to be neutral. If some of the players don't like it, it is for the players to sort out among themselves.

Hell, it's only the last five years or so that I've seen the notion of "Be as explicit as possible about expectations" get any traction. It's twenty years after these events, and people are STILL trying to figure out how it all works.

We are simply being very unfair, and indulging in sloppy thinking.

I dunno, was "'PvP' sexual harassment, sexual abuse, torture, and rape" ok in 1980? I'm not sure exactly what Chirine was talking about when he said The continuing and graphic in-game 'PvP' sexual harassment, sexual abuse, torture, and rape that she had had to put up with as Vrisa. I don't know if that meant all that was something the player witnessed the party due to others or was some of that an ongoing attack on Vrisa?

In any case, being drugged and sold as a slave isn't the worst thing you can do to a PC by far, but what else was involved there?

This has nothing to do with "setting player expectations" and all the new-fangled panty-bunching for the fainting couch crowd, this is Rule Zero of all gaming - "Don't use the game as an excuse to be a dick".

This doesn't sound like friends fucking eachother over gleefully while playing Diplomacy or Paranoia, or even the Thief deciding he needs a little kicker for all the poison traps he faces. This sounds Real Life Personal.

You were right the first time. Phil, being human, fucked up royally. If those types of players were coming to dominate his groups, then more of his friends needed to call him out on that bullshit back then.

I don't know the situation, so forgive me for pulling something out of my ass, but this sounds a little bit like a really popular famous figure attracting a group of sycophants and starting to believe their bullshit.