Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Hrugga

That is what breaks my heart...Tekumel has so much great stuff, but thinking about what it could have been. Seems the same old stuff is still happening today with prospective projects...

The Professor's, Dave S's, and Kathy's illustrations really do define Tekumel for me...

H:0)

Agreed. That was the Tekumel that was, and the Tekumel I lived in. All I can do now is tell you about it, and hope...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

"Oh, and by the way, could you hurry up on that artwork?" she was told. That's when she walked out.

And with that explanation, she turned and left. Never came back to Tekumel, either. I had the shakes for the next two days.

Sad little postscript: When I called to let her know about Phil's memorial event, her husband gave me a polite brush-off. Can't say as I blame them, my General.

Does this put my rage in perspective for you, my General?

Kathy and her amazing talent for illustrating Phil's imagination. Gone, my General.

Words fail.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

It is indeed one of the very saddest of stories. I'm still heartbroken about it to this day - what could have been...

In that group, getting the better of Vrisa was a big prestige item; they have the philosophy of 'the bigger my enemy, the more important I am!'. Which may be why gaming out at Phil's pretty much died, under their reign.

Great, except this isn't about them* anymore. I'm talking about the way the NPCs reacted (probably more sensibly than the PCs, too). I suspect such an act might make them outcasts at any kind of good society there is in Tsolyanu.
Just how long can a PC live this way? Not too long, in my experience.

*Much as they'd probably prefer everything to be about them.

I would like to submit that your views on ships are still well within 'canon', whatever the heck that is. If it floated, we saw it in Phil's campaign, and I've sailed on all the types you describe. Most of them are in my basement as models to. May I commend to you this excellent blog, and an even more excellent work by the author:

http://dualdais.blogspot.com/

OK, that surprises me - in a good way. I just picked the most ancient types I know of, and mixed them with some newer but archaic-looking designs.

I will take your advice, and start on that index! Thank you!

May Ctrl+F guide you!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed. That was the Tekumel that was, and the Tekumel I lived in. All I can do now is tell you about it, and hope...

Well, it's enough for me. We can make it this way again, at least on our tables.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

1. Yes, he was. His philosophy was that the players had 'full player agency', as I think it's called these days, and we could do anything we wanted to - the only area of the campaign that we could not affect were the plot lines for his novels. Otherwise, there were no real limits. The 1990s group was a return to the kind of very nasty power gaming that the original group - later, the Monday Night Group - enjoyed, and which we did not like; that's why we split in the first place.

2.The downside of this philosophy is that things can get really, really toxic. I had the same situation develop in my own game group, with one of the original 1974 players demanding that she be given first choice of anything in game and out simply because of her prestige and seniority as one of the 1974 players. She eventually drove all my younger players away, and was one of the primary causes I closed down the group.

Repeated warnings had no effect. She was simply perfect, in every way, in her view and the rest of us didn't matter.

I frankly don't miss her.

Chirine,

Wow! Well, how about that?
I didn't mean to open up a can of worms by posting that pic. What a shitty thing to do to a player's character. Especially one into which she had invested so much time.

1. I understand Phil's rationale behind allowing this type of game play, but I have to say I have never allowed this in my games. Very early on I made a conscious decision that certain things were just not going to be played out. Rape, extreme (graphic) sexuality, human sacrifices, demonic/diabolic rituals, torture, and wanton sadism were (and still are) completely out. Even though these things certainly happened in the game world, normally, they were the things the bad guys did. I told my players the reason behind my decision and if they wanted me to DM they would have to respect my wishes. I have stuck to my guns ever since. Well that was 34+ years ago and the campaign is still going, and two of the original six are still showing up. Of the other four, three are physically not able to attend or they would, and the last one fell off the face of the earth a long time ago.
When situations arose that forced the party into more "questionable" behaviour I would, and still do, typically gloss over this part of the game.
The extremely slow killing of a pimp in the Foreign Quarter of a certain city comes to mind... The player said he wanted to send a message, and he did.

2. I have zero patience for the type of behaviour you describe. If any of my players behaved this way they would certainly get the boot! It's supposed to be a gaming group. That means everyone gets to have fun, and participate, and get the loot. If she wants to be the precious snowflake then she should find a DM who will run a solo game for her. Or, maybe, she could try the new interactive Tekumel novel. UFB.

Shemek.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yep. Please see post #2592. And people wonder why, after thirty-five years of this sort of thing, I get into these 'cranky old man' moods.

Get off my Sakbe Road!

Shemek

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post

Agreed. That was the Tekumel that was, and the Tekumel I lived in. All I can do now is tell you about it, and hope...

Well, it's enough for me. We can make it this way again, at least on our tables.

Yes sir. You've got that right. This thread is kind of like a nexus point. It has helped to get me "back" to the old Tekumel (at least my version of it).

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

It is indeed one of the very saddest of stories. I'm still heartbroken about it to this day - what could have been...

In that group, getting the better of Vrisa was a big prestige item; they have the philosophy of 'the bigger my enemy, the more important I am!'. Which may be why gaming out at Phil's pretty much died, under their reign.

I wonder how much of this was actually due to envy, or outright jealousy. To me it sounds like they were manipulating the situation created by Phil (regarding player freedom) in order to purge any trace of the "original Thursday Night Group". Judging by the insecurity many of them seem to have, with regards to yourself, I can see this as a motivator (at least subconsciously). Was Lady Vrisa the only original one left from yours and the Glorious General's playing days? Did any of the old Monday Night Group swing over to Thursday? What I find especially disheartening is that Phil allowed this to take place. Just spit-balling here.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Welcome to the last twenty-five years of my life, my General. (Now do you get an idea of why I didn't go to Gary Con?)

Well, I can see why you wouldn't run anything. Perhaps one day you'll be able to simply come and play historical miniatures. (Now I know why you like Pike and Shot era so much!)

But as we've discussed, I have to confess it ain't cheap. Last GaryCon cost me about $500 just for travel, bread, and board, not including the time off from work without pay.

Worth it, but very definitely "a major vacation expense."

Phil's most serious failing as a game master was that he let the "reality" of Tekumel override the players' fun. Not in the sense of "this game is too hard," but in the example of Vrisa, for instance, not putting his foot down and saying "No. You do NOT have the right to ruin somebody else's fun."

As I said above, if everybody is OK with it, what X number of consenting adults do at their gaming table is their business.

But NOBODY has the right to ruin anybody else's fun. If somebody says "But that's what the world is like" or "but that's what my character would do," punch them in the nadgers so hard their nose bleeds.

If your character is an asshole it's because you CHOSE to make them an asshole.

On a lighter note... the Russian Tea Shop in St. Paul is still open, and their piroshki are as good as ever!

But their hours are VERY limited. I think it's now Noon to 3 on Fridays only.

But... PIROSHKI!