Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Missum was indeed a PC.

One OTHER day out in the desert I had a cohort of Legion of Red Devistation attached. We were guarding a small fortress. When the Milumanayani tribes attacked the attached NPC magic user stood outside the gates and threw a Doomkill... and Phil promptly rolled snake eyes out in the open, meaning the magic user dropped the Doomkill on his own feet, vaporizing himself... and the gates of the fortress.

Whereupon I turned to Karin Missum and said "Now I know why they gave me a cohort of Red Devistation."

Karim Missum believed that frontal assaults were for sissies. A real warrior had himself launched by trebuchet into the midst of the foe.

The Red Devastators are all like that.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Well, part of it was that Phil liked gauds, trinkets, luxuries, and sybaritic living, especially in his fiction (Dying Earth and all that) and Chirine and I... pretty much ALL the PCs in our group, in fact... were of the mindset of "Pretty good is good enough." To use a modern analogy, if somebody offered us a week at the Savoy with carte blanche in the dining room (bang chomp whimper!) we'd take it, but we'd be just as happy with Holiday Inn... the beds are horizontal, the sheets are clean, and nobody's trying to kill us in rude ways in our sleep.

Also, honestly, I don't think Phil ever really did understand that Korunme really did just want to be a good loyal soldier, follow orders, serve the Emperor loyally, and fight bravely. I had no aspirations to political office, no desire to line my own nest, no hidden agenda. Again, remember Phil's love for Dying Earth and Jack Vance in general. And he never really got that if an officer shares the hardships and hazards of his men, they will follow him to Hell.

I think that this is very true. All we wanted to do was explore and adventure; we weren't worried about getting rich and famous. Same when we went on military campaigns; all we wanted to do was get the job done.

See also his comments about us in Fine's book. His views didn't change over the next decade - hence his bemused "Chirine, you've gone native."

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Yep. Korunme realized that you couldn't win a battle without risking troops, and if you risked your troops you would lose some.

But way back in 1972 I got involved in a WW2 campaign, my very first. And I was told 'if you lose all your tanks in the first battle, you won't have any for the second." I never forgot that very trenchant little bit of advice. We were in the middle of the bloody Milumanayani desert; there were no reinforcements or replacements, there was only us.

Agreed. And there were damn few of 'us', too.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I'm starting to remember a bit more of this, though I still will accept correction if I'm wrong.

Now, the rest of you need to realize that a major battle group like the enemy had would have organized military magic using contingents, and flying Hlaka scouts, and light infantry, et al.

We were a single legion on the march with no support. We had no light troops so our only scouts were our own mediums, and we had only a few PC magic users. We were simply in "transport mode," and frankly I was a tiny bit piqued when in Flamesong Phil refered to me "getting caught with my thumb up my arse." I think we did pretty damn well.

I vaguely remember getting hemmed in at one point. Sun Tzu always said never put your enemy on "death ground" where they cannot retreat, and we showed why; with "do or die" being the only choice, we did.

Also, though Phil was a pretty good tactician and quite knowledgeable about the ancient and medieval periods, much after the death of Richard III he lost all interest. I, however, had been thoroughly schooled in Blitzkrieg by several people including Chirine... sometimes as a teammate, sometimes an observer, and sometimes recipient of his gentle attentions ( ). So Blitzkrieg concepts were second nature to me. I think I recall that I decided to punch through the enemy on a small front and follow up closely in classic armored attack style, hoping to get through the gap before the "shaft" of the "spear" was cut off.

I think, anyway. Part of the reason I'm not sure is that it was 30 plus years ago, but also to paraphrase Tolstoy, "Successful battles are all alike, but each failed battle fails in its own horrific and usually painful way."

Nope; you got it.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Chirine will be able to answer this more fully. Tekumelyani legions are highly disciplined. Their weapons tend to be on the short-ish side and often cut and thrust. I conjecture that since so many of the best legions used pikes that Phil liked the Greek and Macedonian era better than the Roman.

When I saw Richard Lester's "Three Musketeers" I was taken with Richard Chamberlain's Aramis fighting Florentine, so I eventually prevailed on Phil to let Korunme study "Arruche," the Tsolyani two-weapon style. It was good for duels or individual adventuring, but considered a rather effite "fancy boy" way of fighting for most soldiers. To quote Cerebus the Aardvark, "give me a half dozen Panrovian dueling masters and I could conquer this backwater of a country." But when my cohort, then wing, then legion, got down to serous slaughter I was capable and willing to pick up our unit's shield and weapon and get down and dirty with the best of them.

Agreed with all this; I'll have a longer reply after I get some sleep.

Originally Posted by Bren

You mean their backup weapons are on the short side, right? Pikes being notably not-short as weapons go.

Yep. Secondary weapons include maces, axes, short swords, that kind of thing; it's going to be handy in a melee, it'll get used as a back-up to the long arm.

I personally like a short-sword and dagger combination, with a mace substituted for the short sword when I'm fighting anything in chitin. Small round buckler, too, in place of the dagger; I like to 'multi-task'...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I'm starting to remember a bit more of this, though I still will accept correction if I'm wrong.

Now, the rest of you need to realize that a major battle group like the enemy had would have organized military magic using contingents, and flying Hlaka scouts, and light infantry, et al.

We were a single legion on the march with no support. We had no light troops so our only scouts were our own mediums, and we had only a few PC magic users. We were simply in "transport mode," and frankly I was a tiny bit piqued when in Flamesong Phil refered to me "getting caught with my thumb up my arse." I think we did pretty damn well.

I vaguely remember getting hemmed in at one point. Sun Tzu always said never put your enemy on "death ground" where they cannot retreat, and we showed why; with "do or die" being the only choice, we did.

Also, though Phil was a pretty good tactician and quite knowledgeable about the ancient and medieval periods, much after the death of Richard III he lost all interest. I, however, had been thoroughly schooled in Blitzkrieg by several people including Chirine... sometimes as a teammate, sometimes an observer, and sometimes recipient of his gentle attentions ( ). So Blitzkrieg concepts were second nature to me. I think I recall that I decided to punch through the enemy on a small front and follow up closely in classic armored attack style, hoping to get through the gap before the "shaft" of the "spear" was cut off.

I think, anyway. Part of the reason I'm not sure is that it was 30 plus years ago, but also to paraphrase Tolstoy, "Successful battles are all alike, but each failed battle fails in its own horrific and usually painful way."

Again, long answer on the way...

I haz tharks!!!

Originally Posted by Bren

You mean their backup weapons are on the short side, right? Pikes being notably not-short as weapons go.

I didn't think I needed to state something that was...

...as plain as a pikestaff.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

I didn't think I needed to state something that was...

...as plain as a pikestaff.

Point to the old(er) man.