Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

From Shemek hiTankolel:A lot of useful information Chirine. I have broken down your reply to my earlier post.

Sounds good; replies interleaved, if that's all right...

1. I agree, but I don't think everyone shares our interest and or enthusiasm in military things. So better safe that sorry.

And that's very thoughtful of you. I am getting the impression that whatever information I can provide folks is useful in some way, so here we go...

2. What you describe above is kind of what I thought. Even though there may be more legions present in the ToO, the logistics involved and the terrain may not necessarily conducive to employing a larger formation than a cohort or gurek for most battles, although several cohorts or gureks may be engaged in specific battles. To actually employ many full legions a side in a single battle would be atypical. Is this about right?

It would be; Chanis is one of the bigger ones, and was pretty decisive. Usually, the general commanding the campaign would send multiple cohort detachments as the battle groups that I mentioned, trying to match forces to missions. Big campaigns are a logistic nightmare, and most of the countries of Tekumel aren't very good at it. The Mu'uglavyani have specific 'logistics legions', but nobody else does.

I guess that these detachments (cohorts & gureks) would be considered the "typical" size when it came to battles?

Gureks are the Yan Koryani version of legions; they too are made up of cohorts, so you'd often see that as the basic building blocks of a battle group. Usually, the battlegroup is formed around one legion, usually a heavy if one is handy, with lots and lots of 'attachments'.

3. In your experience with the Ssu have you seen them formed up in some kind formation that would be recognizable? I presume that when they emerge in force, as they are want to do in Pechano, the numbers of troops employed by the "Foes of Man" are quite significant. Several hundred perhaps?
Also, when you faced the Shunned Ones, as I believe you mentioned in an earlier post, did you see them using military formations, or were the numbers too small?

Not really- they don't seem to use much of any formations at all - just a really big block, if they are out in any large numbers. Yes, you can expect to see several hundred - a cohort-sized bunch - normally, but for a really big push there can be a couple of thousand of them. Our battle in the Hekellu - Sirsum microcampaign had us fighting a force this big; it was a little scary.

Never saw Shunned Ones in any force; usually as skirmishing parties of maybe fifty to seventy-five. No formations to peak of; it was all skirmish warfare.

4. As in modern warfare logistics are the ultimate key to victory. If your troops are too hungry or thirsty to consolidate a gain, then what kind of victory has been achieved? A lot of people forget that it was due to his logistical acumen that Eisenhower was appointed overall Supreme Allied Commander by Marshall and Roosevelt. Many don't realize that he had never seen battle first hand, as a junior officer or otherwise. Unless of course you take into account his actions in Washington DC during the Bonus March.

Very true, which is why the Glorious General keeps me around. I was, up until very late in our time with Phil, much more of a staff officer then a line officer or sorcerer.

5. Never heard of this work until you mentioned it. I took a look for it on line, but I only found really expensive copies of Seal of the Imperium where it was initially published. I would like to get a hold of these rules as I am interested in exploring large scale strategic level battles with my gaming group, but not at the prices I found. I'll have to keep my eyes open for them.

Oh. That's too bad; it's a great game...

6. I am not surprised at this, and in fact would not have expected any less.

The guy messed up, and didn't take some pretty basic precautions - he got hit hard, and got killed in the scrum.

I have some follow up questions, but I'll wait to post them until I read your answers to some of the new questions I posted above. BTW, We're getting that same weather system up here as lots of freezing rain, ice pellets and snow. Oh joy! Oh bliss! I wouldn't mind some of the weather in Jakalla right about now.

I did get through the night; I was the only one on, so it got a little hectic.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

A quick question about the OAL. Are they a combat legion as well as a ceremonial legion/secret police? How good are they as a combat unit? Would they be considered the best unit in the Imperium, or does that honour go to the 1st LoEPG?

Shemek

Yes; they have twenty cohorts (8,000 troops total) in steel armor, and are normally in garrison in Bey Su to make sure that everyone understands the benefits of being loyal In 2,354, they had so many recruits on the waiting list they re-established another legion of heavies, the Legion of Potent Destiny as I recall. So, they have something like forty cohorts of intensely loyal infantry to hand.

They are all right as a combat unit, but - if you asked for my professional opinion - they could use some time in the field to get them into shape. They're a garrison unit, and need a little boots on the ground time.

And yes, First Legion of Ever-Present Glory is - hands down - the very best combat unit in the Imperium. They have the field experience, and the skill behind them. On a scale of one to ten, they are about a fifteen.

Originally Posted by Bren

Anybody ask the cohort what they thought about that?

I was there when they heard about this. First, they were insulted that they might be thought disloyal, and then they formed behind their commander to prove that they were afraid of nothing. The Imperium, as well as General Serqu, were very impressed. Which is how the cohort commander became a field-grade officer, and then got his own legion. Gronan is one of the very - and I do mean very - few foreign-born people to be given command of an Imperial legion.

I am not, in contrast, an Imperial general. My little legion, All-Consuming Flame, is actually Engsvanyali in origin, and was never on the Imperial rolls. They are my personal troops, and I have to admit that I am just as proud of them as Gronan is of his legion, the Legion of Mnashu of Thri'il. He's got a good, tough medium infantry legion, and he deserves it.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I was there when they heard about this. First, they were insulted that they might be thought disloyal, and then they formed behind their commander to prove that they were afraid of nothing. The Imperium, as well as General Serqu, were very impressed. Which is how the cohort commander became a field-grade officer, and then got his own legion. Gronan is one of the very - and I do mean very - few foreign-born people to be given command of an Imperial legion.

I am not, in contrast, an Imperial general. My little legion, All-Consuming Flame, is actually Engsvanyali in origin, and was never on the Imperial rolls. They are my personal troops, and I have to admit that I am just as proud of them as Gronan is of his legion, the Legion of Mnashu of Thri'il. He's got a good, tough medium infantry legion, and he deserves it.

Chirine speaks truth. We got where we got by hard work and blood, not by political chicanery.

But it really was fun watching Phil backpetal about the Jade Arch.

There, I think, may be the best demonstration of the difference between groups; the "skullduggers" had The Jade Arch waved at them as a possible punishment, we were all for marching through.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Hello Uncle,

I just dropped in to say hello. Also I could not resist. I have a question now as well(thanks guys)...

Since you are discussing individual Legions. As per the needs of the Imperium, if they had let's say a special mission that a whole Legion would be just too much big to get the job done; where a smaller group would be more practical. Who would the Imperium call upon(I know you have gone on special missions...)? Is there a "special forces" unit(like our modern day Navy Seals or Army Rangers)used to get the job done behind the scenes, or is it that certain individuals are called up to get the job done? Thanks.

Hope to hear from you soon...Now, I must get back through my nexus point and back to work...

H:0)

Normally, player-characters. None of the Five Empires has anything like 'special ops' troops. PCs are easy to hire, send out with whatever resources they might need - like a pouch full of Eyes - and then be 'deniable' if need by. I got sent on a number of 'special ops' over the years, in between formal military campaigns.

Line troops just are not trained or equipped for this kind of thing, and are usually needed where they are to keep order or watch the border. So, it's PCs. which, after all, is why Phil created the thing in the first place; it's all about 'adventure'...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Chirine speaks truth. We got where we got by hard work and blood, not by political chicanery.

But it really was fun watching Phil backpetal about the Jade Arch.

There, I think, may be the best demonstration of the difference between groups; the "skullduggers" had The Jade Arch waved at them as a possible punishment, we were all for marching through.

Yeah, I think so, too. We, both as a group and as individuals, were always much more interested in cooperation in play and simply getting on with living in Phil's world. We were, I think, 'very immersed' in it, and that for years and years...

Originally Posted by Greentongue

How closely do Qol work with other creations or allies of Ksarul?
Can they summon any using spells or devices and then control them?
=

Very closely, from what we saw. In quite a few encounters with them in the various Underworlds, there might be one or two humans from the Temple of Ksarul, and the rest of the party would be anywhere from six to twenty Qol. We did see some Gruganu priests with them on several occasions, as well as all sorts of the 'the usual' Temple of Ksarul creatures. In several encounters, it looked like there was a 'senior Qol' who was in charge and giving the orders.

Yes; they seem to have the full set of spells and abilities that humans do; I don't know if they have the S&G 'temple' spells, as we tried really hard not to hang around long enough to find out. So, yes, we saw them bring up just about anything and everything that we'd see that the Temple of Ksarul had to offer, which often got pretty annoying.

Looking back on this, and thinking about it in game terms, I sort of surprised that they didn't get the kind of 'rolling up' treatment that other non-human races did. I would have liked to have something to roll them up with as NPCs - I strongly doubt that they'd be viable as PCs, to be honest - that had a little more 'flavor'; I normally just roll them up as humans, shading them slightly downwards (-10%) on Dexterity 'cause they don't have fingers. And I'm open to discussion on that, too.