Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Is it WRONG to want to "tread the jeweled thrones"?
To go all Sword & Planet on Tekumel?
=

No, I don't think it is. I think what Gronan is trying to articulate are the differences in nuance and emphasis between 'classic' RPG's and their world settings and what Phil was doing in his. Both Gronan and I come out of those formative years where the concept of an RPG 'campaign' was still new and largely not 'thought through'. The 'domain game' portion of the original D&D rules assumed that the PC would rise in level and resources until they could venture forth out into 'the wilderness' and carve out their own political entity. In Blackmoor, for example, a lot of the original group wound up becoming barons of their own small territories, and then spent a lot of game time defending them against each other and whatever Dave could throw at them.

Phil, on the other hand, had a different viewpoint - one adventured, certainly, and rose in rank and power, but one did it in the context of the society that one was a part of. Gronan himself is a good example of how it worked; he's what I'd consider a great success in and on Tekumel. In that society, one could indeed play 'the domain game', by advancing to the point where one was granted a fief by the Imperium, and then having to govern that fief successfully. The first known fief-holder is William Shipley, who got Kerunan Province some time around 1950 in the very first Tekumel campaign (a map-based board game) and then had to defend it from the Salrvyani - played by another of the first generation of Tekumel players. Later, Craig Smith and Gary Rudolph got the 'starter' two-hex fiefs, and tried to govern them. (Not all that successfully.)

Having said that, it's certainly possible to 'go all Sword and Planet' on Tekumel; my career is perhaps the best example of that kind of thing. I spent most of my career being an Imperial officer in charge of dealing with stupid people, which (of course) involved a lot of adventures along the way. Yes, I finally got a fief, but I had to fight for it - and for the Imperium.

Look at Phil's maps of Tekumel. Look at them from a GM's standpoint. Tsolyanu is centrally located, and around it are the other major empires. However, in between the borders of the Five Empires are a lot of little buffer states, wilderness areas, high mountains, and other areas that are not part of the empires and which provide the GM with a ready-made locale for High Adventure. Phil left a whole lot of blank space on the maps, as well as a lot of 'fringes' built into the societies of the Five Empires, and means whereby people could play the kind of game that ACKS - or OD&D, for that matter - encourages.

I think it's the difference between the Conan of the books, who eventually 'settles down' and becomes King of Aquilonia (and thus has very different adventures then he had in his younger days) and the Conan of the movies, where it's a lot more like the kind of life your basic adventurer leads.

Is it possible to be a John Carter, Kimball Kinnison, or even Conan of Hyboria on Phil's Tekumel? Yes; Phil left enough room for it, in all sorts of places. he did it with us, in our games; we moved out of the central empire a lot, and lived out on the edges of The Known World being legends.

Is this any more clear? I know I'm getting a little abstract and philosophical, mostly 'cause I'm just in from a very cold night at work and pretty tired.

Thoughts? Comments?

Originally Posted by AsenRG

But that's interesting, what look was there on Phil's sparring partners' faces?

Sheer panic, most of the time.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I think it's the difference between the Conan of the books, who eventually 'settles down' and becomes King of Aquilonia (and thus has very different adventures then he had in his younger days) and the Conan of the movies, where it's a lot more like the kind of life your basic adventurer leads.

Is it possible to be a John Carter, Kimball Kinnison, or even Conan of Hyboria on Phil's Tekumel? Yes; Phil left enough room for it, in all sorts of places. he did it with us, in our games; we moved out of the central empire a lot, and lived out on the edges of The Known World being legends.

Baron Ald kind of reads like that. Young man from Saa Allaqi wanders out of that backward country, has adventures, becomes a mercenary, rises to General but is betrayed, starts own country.



Another question, when you found unknown devices of the ancients, how did the Good Professor describe them? Did you ever find a device where his description baffled you but that was dead on in retrospect after you had a eureka moment?

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Baron Ald kind of reads like that. Young man from Saa Allaqi wanders out of that backward country, has adventures, becomes a mercenary, rises to General but is betrayed, starts own country.

Another question, when you found unknown devices of the ancients, how did the Good Professor describe them? Did you ever find a device where his description baffled you but that was dead on in retrospect after you had a eureka moment?

Precisely! We always had to wonder, over the years, if Baron Ald was actually one of Phil's players from his college years' game...

He would describe them quite literally and accurately, and we had no idea what they did except from what they did when we pushed the buttons. We had a lot of times where we had what you described. Here's an example:

"You find a metal device, about knee-high tall about about as big around as your body. It's cylindrical, with a domed top; there are two jewels on the top of the dome, one green and one red; the red one is glowing red. There is a metallic tube coming out of one side of the object, and this ends in a broad, fan-shaped metal piece with slots in the end."

What is it?

Originally Posted by Hrugga

"It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga.
Let me tell you of the days of high adventure..."

It is very clear. I think it all goes back to The Professor's, "make Tekumel yours". Sky is the limit, if that is what you want. Be the humble priest or soldier going about his duties, travel the planes, battle demons, it is all good. Enjoy!!! One thing that I have learned (here and reading The Blue Room Archives) is that there is a difference between "real" Tekumel and "game" Tekumel(just like on Earth). In "game" Tekumel there is more magic, fantastical elements, and death...In "real" Tekumel there is work, more taxes, and death...So by Klono's tungsten teeth make Tekumel your own...So have fun, or pay taxes(or both). The choice is yours.

Uncle, what is best in life...???

H;0)

Exactly. Tekumel, at least the way Phil described it and played it, is a pretty big tent that will shelter a lot of play styles. Make of it what you will!


What is best in life? For Chirine? A quiet night at home with the family, when he's not out leading his little army and his friends in yet another adventure...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Sheer panic, most of the time.

Interesting! So he was as good with fists, swords, or whatever you practiced with, as he was with cards?
That man has indeed lead a very interesting life.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Interesting! So he was as good with fists, swords, or whatever you practiced with, as he was with cards?
That man has indeed lead a very interesting life.

In my experience with him, he was good at anything he wanted to be good at. He'd study something, and learn - and remember.

From some of the ways he handled his collection of Indo-Persian weapons, he'd gotten some sort of formal instruction in their use at some point in his life; I'd bet on his time as a Fulbright Scholar, studying there, and being out in rural South Asia.

None of us practiced with him, in any sort of formal sense, but he was very fond of us bringing our stuff over - like Gronan, in his armor - and going out onto the lawn (much to the amusement of the neighbors!) to fool around with various things to see how they worked. You could tell from how Phil moved that if hadn't been for the terrible vision and the arthritis, he would have given you a very rough time - and I dare say that he would have been able to give Gronan a run for his money, if he'd been younger and better health.

I do not say this lightly; Gronan, at time, was a pretty durn skilled man-at-arms, and was A Pretty Serious Contender. Phil also had a height and weight advantage, and only the gods know what kind of experience to call upon.

I took my set of shinai out to his house once, and we had lots and lots of fun sparring - his wife was away, so we got away with it. He knew all the basics, and was reasonably quick - not mobile, due to the arthritis, but quick. I made sure not to bring the bokken out there...

No, Phil had a fascinating life, and I am very glad that we got the chance to share part of it with him.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

In my experience with him, he was good at anything he wanted to be good at. He'd study something, and learn - and remember.

From some of the ways he handled his collection of Indo-Persian weapons, he'd gotten some sort of formal instruction in their use at some point in his life; I'd bet on his time as a Fulbright Scholar, studying there, and being out in rural South Asia.

None of us practiced with him, in any sort of formal sense, but he was very fond of us bringing our stuff over - like Gronan, in his armor - and going out onto the lawn (much to the amusement of the neighbors!) to fool around with various things to see how they worked. You could tell from how Phil moved that if hadn't been for the terrible vision and the arthritis, he would have given you a very rough time - and I dare say that he would have been able to give Gronan a run for his money, if he'd been younger and better health.

I do not say this lightly; Gronan, at time, was a pretty durn skilled man-at-arms, and was A Pretty Serious Contender. Phil also had a height and weight advantage, and only the gods know what kind of experience to call upon.

I took my set of shinai out to his house once, and we had lots and lots of fun sparring - his wife was away, so we got away with it. He knew all the basics, and was reasonably quick - not mobile, due to the arthritis, but quick. I made sure not to bring the bokken out there...

No, Phil had a fascinating life, and I am very glad that we got the chance to share part of it with him.

Ah well, after I was told in another thread that Gary Gygax was also testing polearms, I can only conclude that I'm moving in the right direction, myself! Seems to be something of an unspoken tradition for Referees.
Gary and Phil were among the first Referees, right?