Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Big Andy

All true, but for many who started playing after OD&D, especially AD&D and beyond, it was nothing but fight fight fight. I am reminded of the scene in the comedy film Gamers: Dorkness Rising when the new player suggests negotiating as a useful way to handle encounters and the old hands look at her in speechless horror. "Negotiation isn't your style?" she asks and they reply "Not exactly, no. Our philosophy is: beat it until it stops moving ...and then shoot it... ...and then step on its 'nads."

That has nothing to do with rules or setting, and everything to do with poor play and bad refereeing.

In Greyhawk and Blackmoor we negotiated a LOT. Then the game got into the hands of adolescent non wargamers who ignored the morale and negotiation rules. This is not conjecture; I've been told "Oh, we just ignored that" countless times.

Sigh. Take away gold for XP, don't raise monster XP levels, eliminate negotiation and morale, and then bitch that the game is a bloodbath at low levels.

In OD&D, CHARISMA has a writeup several times larger than any other stat.

The rules can't fix stupid.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Wow. Is this what's being talked about concerning a 'balanced game'? It's like the WWII game where I sent a jeep down a road on recon, just like they did in Normandy. Sure enough, somebody took a shot at them, with a tank gun that was 'way above their level'.

Ah, yes, the game where "Trigger Happy Thompson" earned his sobriquet...

If memory serves the firing gun was actually an 88mm FlaK 36. I seemed to remember he missed, but the shock wave from the shell took the driver's helmet off...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Ah, yes, the game where "Trigger Happy Thompson" earned his sobriquet...

If memory serves the firing gun was actually an 88mm FlaK 36. I seemed to remember he missed, but the shock wave from the shell took the driver's helmet off...

Your memory does serve; the GI's drove the jeep into the ditch, and got on their radio. And as predicted, the 88 was under - wait for it! - The Pink Tree Of Death...

[From: Big Andy]

Since we're talking tubeways...
Did anyone ever map them, even a part? I understand that the whole system is interconnected but did anyone ever chart which places were directly connected, where certain switching stations (you and the General are train guys so I hope I am using that term correctly. If not, I willingly accept your mockery!) are, etc? I know a tubeway rutter was an important plot point in A Death of Kings I believe. I figure since you guys sailed around, working a sextant or whatever would make it possible,


I don't know about anyone else, but I did take notes on our travels. The Tsolyani really don't use maps per se but rutters are very common so I did that. I have a sort of schematic diagram showing what connects to what, and through what switching station, but as a flat map it really needs to be redone as a three-dimensional one.

Not a sextant, used an astrolabe. Same difference, really, so we could tell how far north or south we were; east and west took being in a location for a while so I could make observations and calculations - see also the 'lunar distance method' for working out longitude.

Did you guys ever go inside one of the sealed cities of the Shunned Ones? I know they occasionally venture out of them so I assume there is a way back in, ala Logan's Run or something similar.

Yes. You can get into them via a tubeway or the airlocks that lead into them, but you can't stay long - very different (and fatal) atmosphere. And they don't like visitors, either.

I have asked many players who only want combat when they play an rpg why they don't wargame instead and have never got an answer that makes sense. But then again, many of the most popular wargames have little or no morale or CnC rules in them, just little metal/plastic soldiers who willingly march wherever and whenever the player wants, no matter what horrible death awaits them there. Also, doesn't seem like there are as many people that play both rpgs and wargames as there used to be. Seems like a lot of people sit in one camp or the other.

Agreed. I don't know when the deep chasm opened, but I've found it very difficult to get people to think outside their specific genre.

And yes, a lot of wargames are very much in the mold of the first-person shooter. It sells more product, that way - see also the GW 'market demographic', which is short on morale factors and very long on shoot 'em up.

Originally Posted by Hermes Serpent

I put the blame on computer games :-) I don't believe any of them have any morale rules and so it's a kill fest of epic proportions and that translates to the table top. With no experience or someone to guide them players will do what the computer teaches them to do which is kill! kill! KILL! to get the XP and then take their stuff.

Nigel

Agreed. I've seen this all too many times at the local FLGS. It gets old to watch, and I like miniatures...

Since my personal ur-wargame is historical miniatures, the notion of " wargames without morale" is oxymoronic to me.

Of course on this very site people have told me that historical miniatures aren't wargames, so what the hell do I know.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yes; all the standard - spherical - cars can go to any station. It's only the longer 'pill-shaped' transports that have to go to specific stations, as these are the ancients' troop and cargo carriers. The standard cars are all the same shape and diameter, so they can go anywhere on the system, but do differ in their internal details as they were often personal property of the ancients.

The 'memory discs' have ten preselected destinations on them, and the car will go to them when you press the 'pre-selected' button; otherwise, you get the last ten destinations that were programmed into the car; the destinations from the last disc used stay in the car's memory until a new disc is inserted, or some 'helpful' person reprograms the car. It is possible to wipe the car's memory, which is really annoying as the car will then just sit there and do nothing. It's also possible to reprogram the discs, but one has to be a pretty high-level wizard to do it.

The tubes are on a sort of 'hub and spoke' system; the cars will travel through the tubes, and often change over to a different tube in one of the huge interchange and repair areas. I do not advise getting out and looking around - many of the machines still work, as do the robotic guards.

All of this is why one should always take one's disc out of the console, and take it with when disembarking from the car. It's really bad to lose your disc, too.

Does this help? More?

Helps? Yes!!! More, if you must...I am waiting for the storming of King Bassa's Palace. Speaking of Suu...

Just some quick questions in regard to those sweet smelling menaces. How many types are there? We have the big black ones and the grey ones(maybe rumors of green Suu?). Did you ever encounter any other varieties?

Also I've heard that they have a chirping-sing-song way of speaking. Is their language intelligable to any of the friendly races and humans? Is there ever any comunication between Suu and Humans(I could see comunicating by telepathy)? So is there ever any parlaying? Or is it always to the death(or I need to get my ... out of there depending on circumstances)?

Thanks

H :0)