Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Yeah, GaryCon was great, and I feel bad for you for what happened after.

Not to mention, as Obi-Wan said, "I'm getting too old for this sort of thing." I'm 60 years old, and frankly half a dozen trips from the Coffman parking garage to the third floor isn't as easy as it used to be. Paul Stormberg brings the miniatures for the CHAINMAIL battles -- 40 mm Elastolins, no less! -- so all I have to do is show up.

For that matter I wouldn't mind buying some of Phil's medieval 25s, but the notion of getting them for the prices I'd be willing to pay seems pretty nugatory. I want them to WARGAME with, not worship. Or have sex with.

Agreed. I just turned 59, and I feel the same way you do - and this is with the multitude of carts that I own.

Ask the Foundation for the miniatures; at one point, they were asking me who to give them to, as they didn't want to be responsible for them. They told me that they have no idea what to do with them, and they don't want to have to deal with the storage and conservation issues.

(I have some of your old figures, by the way, including Polidor.)

Originally Posted by Hrugga

For the most part it seems that when you played with The Professor, most of you played human characters. I seem to remember one player was a nonhuman? Is this for the most part the way it was(mostly humans)?

If so, why? Easier to be humans?

Thanks,

H :0)

It takes good acting on the part of the 'non-human' player, if they're not going to do a bad job for the other players. In our group, Dave Romm played a Tinaliya - he was the only non-human player we ever had - and did a winderful job of it; he even drove Phil crazy, as he never, ever broke character in any of the game sessions. Brilliant role playing, and brilliant acting.

Aside from that example, we all played humans - but all of our PCs were 'old hands' from the late 1970s and early 1980s, so we started out at humans and stayed that way.

In my own RPG groups, I've had one player be a Pe Choi, and that's pretty much it. I try to discourage playing non-humans, as the 'mind set' is usually just too different for most gamers to try and deal with. There's a tremendous need to be able to actually 'role play', and this usually involves a lot of pre-game prep and coaching with the player. If they can act, and they'll put in the work, then they can certainly play a non-human.

In the one RPG group that came over here for a 'tour of the museum', the players are mostly non-human, because they apparently rolled for it on some sort of random table that their GM uses. Most of them didn't have a good idea of what they were, hence the visit to the basement.

I don't like the concept of 'you roll on these random tables' for gender, religion, species, and that kind of thing. What we used to do at Phil's was that Phil would have a talk with the player, discuss the world-setting, and then find something that the player would feel comfortable with. I think this was because we were such a long-term campaign - we thought in years, instead of weeks or even months for the duration of the campaign. (No 'one-shots' for us.) I still do it what way, as it worked for me and my players for years.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Ask the Foundation for the miniatures; at one point, they were asking me who to give them to, as they didn't want to be responsible for them. They told me that they have no idea what to do with them, and they don't want to have to deal with the storage and conservation issues.

So you took charge of this stuff and looked after it when no one else could be bothered but now that it's valuable people expect you to just hand it over? If so, I wish I could be surprised but I'm not.

Originally Posted by yosemitemike

So you took charge of this stuff and looked after it when no one else could be bothered but now that it's valuable people expect you to just hand it over? If so, I wish I could be surprised but I'm not.

Yeah, that's pretty much the story in a nutshell. It has been my experience that a lot of 'game collection stuff' is considered worthless and gets tossed in the trash until somebody makes an effort to save and preserve such bits of history. Then, it becomes 'collectable' and worth lots and lots of money. Stuff I published in the early 1980s for Tekumel, and which was declared 'worthless' by 'people in the know', is now going for absurd amounts on e-bay.

"Sure to increase in value now that Prof. Barker has passed away!" and "An excellent investment opportunity for the collector of RPG materials!". Etc.

One of the various factions surrounding Tekumel got the bright idea that it could simply seize my collections as "I was not fit to hold the materials" because I wasn't "a real collector" and because I had "inappropriate shelving" in my game room. Wasted the better part of a year and almost a grand in lawyer's fees to get rid of them.

The fundamental premise behind a lot of this is that my knowledge and expertise is worth lots of money, but only for "the right kind of people". Hearing this sort of thing from friends of over thirty years got really old, as did the orgy of looting that wen on while the Professor was in his last illness. I used to have to bring boxes of personal stuff - like Phil and Ambereen's wedding photographs, for mercy's sake! - to them after they'd been dropped off with me "for the collection".

It was insane, it's still insane, and I am very glad not to have to associate with any of these people any more.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

The fundamental premise behind a lot of this is that my knowledge and expertise is worth lots of money, but only for "the right kind of people". Hearing this sort of thing from friends of over thirty years got really old, as did the orgy of looting that wen on while the Professor was in his last illness. I used to have to bring boxes of personal stuff - like Phil and Ambereen's wedding photographs, for mercy's sake! - to them after they'd been dropped off with me "for the collection".

Wait...hold on. You had to return his wedding photos because someone pilfered them and then dumped them on you? Am I reading that right? Holy fucking shit. That's might be the biggest dick move I have ever heard of. It's such an absurdly dickish thing to do that I keep thinking I must have read it wrong. That's bad enough to make me not want to buy the stuff on Drivethru RPG if any of these people are involved with it.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

It was insane, it's still insane, and I am very glad not to have to associate with any of these people any more.

These people are completely nuts.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

It takes good acting on the part of the 'non-human' player, if they're not going to do a bad job for the other players. In our group, Dave Romm played a Tinaliya - he was the only non-human player we ever had - and did a winderful job of it; he even drove Phil crazy, as he never, ever broke character in any of the game sessions. Brilliant role playing, and brilliant acting.

Aside from that example, we all played humans - but all of our PCs were 'old hands' from the late 1970s and early 1980s, so we started out at humans and stayed that way.

In my own RPG groups, I've had one player be a Pe Choi, and that's pretty much it. I try to discourage playing non-humans, as the 'mind set' is usually just too different for most gamers to try and deal with. There's a tremendous need to be able to actually 'role play', and this usually involves a lot of pre-game prep and coaching with the player. If they can act, and they'll put in the work, then they can certainly play a non-human.

In the one RPG group that came over here for a 'tour of the museum', the players are mostly non-human, because they apparently rolled for it on some sort of random table that their GM uses. Most of them didn't have a good idea of what they were, hence the visit to the basement.

I don't like the concept of 'you roll on these random tables' for gender, religion, species, and that kind of thing. What we used to do at Phil's was that Phil would have a talk with the player, discuss the world-setting, and then find something that the player would feel comfortable with. I think this was because we were such a long-term campaign - we thought in years, instead of weeks or even months for the duration of the campaign. (No 'one-shots' for us.) I still do it what way, as it worked for me and my players for years.

If you may could you give us an idea about what was the "mind set" of the nonhuman races on Tekumel during your adventures. Some of the stereotypes I know. Such as the Tinaliya are very literal. Shen will eat your children and you if you don't pay attention(do not mess with their eggs). Nin�nyal will sell you your own stuff for double the price. The Knobbed Ones are an uncuth lot that smell and would pee on your walls without thinking twice...etc.

I especially like the Pachi Lei. For whatever reason, I love The Professor's illustration of them. I do know they have a tendency to lose control now and again.

Any insight into nonhumans would be helpful. So when the time comes, I can give the kids a good idea of what they are like.

Thanks,

H :0)

PS Please let me know if these sorts of questions are too elementary(I have not read the S&G sourcebook cover to cover yet).

Originally Posted by yosemitemike

Wait...hold on. You had to return his wedding photos because someone pilfered them and then dumped them on you? Am I reading that right? Holy fucking shit. That's might be the biggest dick move I have ever heard of. It's such an absurdly dickish thing to do that I keep thinking I must have read it wrong. That's bad enough to make me not want to buy the stuff on Drivethru RPG if any of these people are involved with it.

These people are completely nuts.

Yes, you read that right. The back ground to this is that over the years, I have built up a collection of artifacts and costumes to show off and explain ('make accessible', as it were) Tekumel and what we used to do in our gaming groups. (There's also a miniatures collection and a documents collection, begun in the late 1970s.) I was following in Phil's footsteps; he loved to pull stuff out for games, like the night Arneson was describing how to navigate his ship - Phil pulled out an astrolabe, and challenged Dave to use it. It turned out Dave did know how to use the thing, and great fun was had by all.

So, in the summer of 2011, my gaming group moved all of Phil's Tekumel collection into storage for the Tekumel Foundation; as the unoffcial archivist for Tekumel, I did all the legwork forthe move, including providing boxes and the cargo van. There was, at that time, about 500 cubic feet worth of materials, and we did inventories and back-up copies of everything s a lot of the papers were in pretty bad shape from mold and mildew. I was then 'hired', for a dollar a year, by the Foundation to be the Official Authorized Approved archivist for Tekumel. I was offered quite a lot of Phil's stuff by his wife, both personal and gaming, and I made sure that the Foundation got all of the Tekumel stuff. (I go a few personal items, that had personal meaning for me; his old desk calendar, a betel-nut spittoon, a couple of cheap swords, things like that.)

There has always been a huge amount of interpersonal rivalry between Phil's old players, and the ones who were there in the 1990s; these latter are now the bulk of the board of the Tekumel Foundation. There was, and still is, a lot of what Gronan used to describe as "I have a bigger pee-pee then you do!", and over Phil's last summer one of my players - and now former friend / player - got the bright idea of visiting the invalid Phil once a week to keep him company. Another old gamer went with her, and it turned out that he was the one sitting up with Phil - she would spend a little time with him, and then start going through the house to see what she could pick up for my collection before the Tekumel Foundation could get to it. (1)

She went through the place like a vacuum cleaner, picking up anything and everything that she thought might be worth something. She's a devotee of flea markets and rummage sales, and she'd bring literally boxes of stuff that had little or no relationship to Tekumel over to my house and dump it off 'for the collection'. I checked back with Ambereen, and no, she hadn't authorized - or known about - what was going on, so I returned all the stuff promptly. This went on for the better part of a year, before this person finally wore out her welcome everywhere by her antics the day Phil passed away. (2)

It caused an immense number of problems, both personal and professional, and really poured a lot of salt on old wounds; she made a tense situation much worse, with repercussions that continue to this day - see also my being 'banned' from Gary Con by the Tekumel Foundation. A lot of paranoia got fed, and a lot of insecurities made a lot worse.

It got so bad that I finally had my brain bleed, and after some more goofy stuff on the part of the Foundation regarding Phil's legacy I simply refused to renew my contract with them.

And she later on became a stalwart member of the faction that tried to 'collect' my collections.

So, yes, there are a lot of really bad nut cases in the mix, and I try very hard to stay away from all of them.

Re the Foundation, well, you've read this thread and others, I presume. Make up your own mind and make your own decisions.

(1) And, yes, this material included Phil and Ambreen's wedding photos. I was, and still am, genuinely shocked by that.

(2) This person also used to take my wife out to these things, and she'd come back with all sorts of junk that this person would claim was 'for the collection'; she'd pick the stuff out, and sell it to my wife. She used to get about $1,500 a year out of the Missus until I put a stop to it.

Originally Posted by nDervish

Can you impart any wisdom on that front? I've often wanted to play out shopping trips, but invariably get stuck with groups of players who want to treat the rulebook like a Sears catalog and just buy everything at list price between game sessions.

I think that just made my day.

Although I'm in Europe now, I grew up in the Twin Cities, played a couple times in Coffman around 1990, etc., so, as I've been reading this thread, I've always had the question in the back of my head, "Do I know anyone they gamed with?" Now I know that the answer is at least a sort-of-yes. (I doubt the Baron remembers me, but he's a friend of several of my friends and we've talked briefly at cons a few times.)

It's like a trip through the market in any city in India; you'd wander about, and visit the merchants' shops; they'd invite you in, you'd have refreshments and discuss the weather, your families, and everything else under the sun. Eventually, the merchant would just happen to mention that he had something to sell, and would the noble person deign to look at the goods? Bargaining would occur, and the sale eventually made. See also the scene in "Casablanca", where Rick and Ilsa are in the market place.

Yes, Dave was a genius, and really set the tone for the Tinaliya. It was great fun to watch Phil get more and more put out by his own creation taking form.