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Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

  1. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya View Post
    It's why, when Phil gave me guff about "what do these monsters eat" I put a McDonald's on the 6th level. In "THE FUN HOUSE FROM HELL" nobody cares about stuff like ecology.
    Whereas I introduced "breadrock" in my current D&D 5e campaign. It's edible rock if you didn't guess. It's tough and dry if spongy if less so than iron rations and more nutritious than a big mac. Rolemaster had Gabbits that bred insanely fast, were about the size of a schnauzer, slow moving, and mostly meat.

    As to the legal stuff, I hope there's a special place in hell for people who having no capacity to create anything of worth themselves grasp hold of someone else's intellectual property and claim it for their own. I'm not talking about work for hire in particular. But as David Sims said of doing work for hire "They will never pay you more than the lawyers will cost them."
    Last edited by David Johansen; 12-12-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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  2. #1492
    Señor Member Bren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    To summarize thirty-some years in a nutshell, there are people out there who firmly believe that it's better to have no Tekumel then a Tekumel that's outside their control.
    That's a battle they've already lost. People can run Tekumel based on what is already out there in the wild.

    What the pin-headed, controlling, nit wits can do is limit what resources are easily made available and limit the number of people who are exposed to the cool things its creator invented. It's tragic that they won't let the information out there so that Phil's legacy can get the widest possible exposure.
    Currently playing: WEG Star Wars D6
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  3. #1493
    Senior Member Hrugga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    Right. First, there will be a short rant that you should feel free to ignore, and then I'll talk about how I set up a game like this.

    [Rant follows.]
    Well, yes, it is the second Saturday of the month, and normally we'd have played out this second half of the adventure. However, the players were all busy, and I doubt we'll be back to this game until January. It's been very difficult, over the past couple of years, to be able to get people together for gaming any any sort of regular basis; people have lives, and things like school do get in the way. It has not helped the group that we took a lot of hassle from various organizations, legal and otherwise, trying to get control of what's in my head. My memories (and my collections) are regarded by some people as 'collectable' and 'valuable as investments', and my book also seems to be seen as 'the pot of gold at the end of the Tekumel rainbow' for anyone who can get control of the property. All of this has had a very negative effect on my younger players, who all have better (and more fun!) things to do with their time then be served legal papers when gaming here at the house by the very people - the 'senior gamers, also called "Barker's Own", by some Tekumel fans - that they looked up to and respected. It's the same sort of mindless and ultimately pointless 'politics around the Petal Throne' that has dogged Tekumel for years.

    To summarize thirty-some years in a nutshell, there are people out there who firmly believe that it's better to have no Tekumel then a Tekumel that's outside their control. I'm sick and tired of the feuding factions all kicking me, just 'cause "Chirine has all the good stuff, and we want it for ourselves." It's gotten old.
    [Rant ends. Thank you for your patience. ]

    Okay; back to the game. In this case, I made sure to have two possible entrances to the presumed Underworld on the table. This will be a true three-dimensional game, as you can go up inside the pyramid - it has four levels and does come apart for access - as well as the below-ground level. In past games, the creatures of the Underworld have managed to come up one of the unguarded shafts and surprise the players. It's much more entertaining, they way.

    I like to make some quick sketches of the levels, and then I'll lay them out on the table with my set of modular Underworld tiles; I use wooden blocks (from IKEA, actually) to do walls, as these allow for better access and visibility for the players. I like to steal my floor plans from historical sources, either something that Phil did or something that he liked - I use Ancient Egyptian tomb plans a lot, as this was something that Phil did. Generally, I design 'one-off' complexes like this so that the closer and closer one gets to the center, the richer the rewards - and the more dangerous and risky the adventure. The 'gaming well' of my table is 48" x 48", and this allows for some pretty extensive Underworlds; you might want to have a look at the videos I have on You Tube of a similar game.

    Generally, I don't use random tables to stock the Underworld. I think about what the rooms would be used for, in their historical contexts both in the real world and in Phil's; his Jakalla Underworld is full of closets and storeroom for the use of the people who live and work down there. I do the same thing; I then stock the rooms with all sorts of goodies, using my collection of 'detail' stuff. Barrels, weapons racks, thrones, statues, you name it - I got it. I also always make sure to make notes and take photos of whatever I've built, so that if we ever need to go back there, I can recreate the entire underworld as need be.

    Next, I work up who's already there; no Hlutrgu, as you would really not be finding them in much of any situation other then along their nasty swamplands. However, this is not an issue, as Tekumel is very well-stocked with Dire Perils, and I have a lot of them on the shelves. Since this is a tomb complex, I would expect to find a lot of Undead, so out come the boxes of Undead and I play the role of the Ancient High Priest who originally stocked the place up with hordes of Tomb guardians. Each group is given a specific set of instructions, unless there will be a 'live' player to run them - this is a great job to give guests and visitors! - and they will act as per those instructions. This is as per Phil's practice; he used to note that the Undead are not the smartest beings around, and usually have to be directed by a live intelligence for maximum havoc. Luckily for me, I have some of those, too.

    I can't say that I work all this out by whim; I go from what I saw and encountered in Phil's campaign, and his usual practices when he did stuff like this. I do keep careful notes, though, and I refer to these when the players find something. I should also note that the players can't see into anything unless they actually look through the doorway or go into a room; I use black paper to cover the rooms until they do this.

    And I should also say that one does not need miniatures for all this; big sheets of paper, or the modern battle mats, will work just as well. Once the play starts, it pretty much runs itself, and all I do is facilitate what the players are doing.

    Does this help?
    Thank you. It always helps!!! Sorry to hear that you and yours are being pestered. We all know how you feel about The Professor and his creation. I know what you do is in good faith. Keep up the good work. The Emperor may change, but the story must be told. Keep writing... ;0)

    I know that you were named after a great hero in Tekumel's past. Any family history that we don't know about? I keep thinking to myself, baKal is quite similar to Pakal...Talk to you soon.

    H :0)

    PS Rant and rave all you want. I'm strapped in...

  4. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya View Post
    Jesus H. Christ.

    I know it's wrong to blaspheme, but honestly, I don't know what else to say.
    Understood. look at it from the point of the dozen twenty-something college students and high-school students I had in my game group. One would think that one would like to encourage young people to get into the hobby in general, and to learn about and enjoy Tekumel in particular. They had a lot of fun in Phil's world, and picked up on how it worked a while lot faster then you and I did - they have a lot more cross cultural knowledge then we did at their age, and were able to 'get' Tekumel very quickly and easily.

    Sadly, the 'older and more experienced' people saw them as both a resource to be shamelessly exploited, and as a threat to their own position and prestige. These kids busted their butts to make Phil's memorial event happen, to cite just one example, and got tromped on as a result. What makes it even sadder were the contributions they were making to Tekumel as a whole - several of the new miniatures were their creations, after running into the creatures in our games.

    And the various factions are still at it; too. I was taken out for breakfast last Sunday, my 59th birthday, by one of them as they wanted to 'kiss and make up' with me for all their legal threats - yes these are the same folks who cost me $800 in legal fees to get rid of them. I went, mostly because several of them had been friends for some thirty years.

    Five hours later - but really good steak and eggs - I had gotten nothing from them besides all sorts of pressure to let them have my work and my book. No apologies, no excuses, no nothing; not even any remorse for the RICO conviction one of them had managed to rack up. (They have a fascinating legal history; the Internet is your friend. And my Missus is the Queen of the Internet.) They gave me the same old same old that they had given me the last time around, and I simply smiled sweetly and ate my breakfast. (Eggs over hard, please.) And with that, I got up, and several thirty-plus year friendships ended in a wet, rainy parking lot in South Minneapolis.

    So it goes.

  5. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya View Post
    To suggest in the spirit of eternal chumship that you ignore the banal screelings of the littermates of drones.
    Agreed. This thread, on this forum, is the only place where I'm active these days. I'll probably get my blog going again, now that I have a more regular work schedule, but I don't know how often I'll be posting or what about.

    I've given up on 'outreach' to local gamers; I've been trying for several years to let people know about what I do, like the Braunsteins I run, and I have gotten no effective responses. I've been told that I need to be using a popular set of rules, that I need to run my games at specific times at specific locations, and that I need to change what I do so as to be more in step with modern gaming.

    Well, all right, I can understand all that, but that's not something I can do and still be the gamer that I am, and have been since those hot summer nights in Coffmann Union.

    So, once again, it goes.

  6. #1496
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    As to the legal stuff, I hope there's a special place in hell for people who having no capacity to create anything of worth themselves grasp hold of someone else's intellectual property and claim it for their own. I'm not talking about work for hire in particular. But as David Sims said of doing work for hire "They will never pay you more than the lawyers will cost them."
    David, I'm sorry; I did the 'quote thing' wrong. here's my response to you:

    Agreed. My problem has always been that I'm a 'populist', with the exact same attitude that you have. And, as I demonstrated, it does sell the merchandise; I seem to be the only person who ever made decent sales with Tekumel stuff.

    Everybody in these factions seems to think that there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and a ton of money for the one who can get the IP under lock and key. Getting my brain under their control is seen as a vital part of this; I seem to simply know too much for my own good.
    Last edited by chirine ba kal; 12-13-2015 at 02:05 AM. Reason: wrong quote used, sorry.

  7. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    That's a battle they've already lost. People can run Tekumel based on what is already out there in the wild.

    What the pin-headed, controlling, nit wits can do is limit what resources are easily made available and limit the number of people who are exposed to the cool things its creator invented. It's tragic that they won't let the information out there so that Phil's legacy can get the widest possible exposure.
    Agreed. The truth is out there, and people like you are Tekumel's future.

  8. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrugga View Post
    Thank you. It always helps!!! Sorry to hear that you and yours are being pestered. We all know how you feel about The Professor and his creation. I know what you do is in good faith. Keep up the good work. The Emperor may change, but the story must be told. Keep writing... ;0)

    I know that you were named after a great hero in Tekumel's past. Any family history that we don't know about? I keep thinking to myself, baKal is quite similar to Pakal...Talk to you soon.

    PS Rant and rave all you want. I'm strapped in...

    Always happy to help! Ask away - I really enjoy it!

    First off, I'm sorry about the griping; all I'm trying to do is tell people about Phil and our games with him. That's it; no 'Secret Plan', no nothing.

    Sigh. Anyway:

    Yes, there is. You'll get more in the book, but Chirine is indeed named after the legend of the Dark Times, Chirene the Dragon-Headed Warrior of Nlyss. Chirine himself is not a Nylss; he is, however, descended from a long line of sorcerer-priest-soldiers of the Temple of Vimhula. The Clan of the Eye of the Flame has certainly fallen on hard times, but they are very, very old and very, very 'connected'. I'll be talking a lot about this in Book Four, where Our Heroes travel to Malchairan and deal with the Affair of the Malchairan Emerald. This was maybe the most 'D&D'-like adventure Phil ever did for us, and was the only really classic 'quest' / 'mission' adventure we ever went on. You'll learn about why Chirine knows as much as he does, and why the Vriddi / Ebbridda are his allies a lot of the time.

    Chirene himself also puts in a 'guest star' appearance, in Book Five. Gertie the Great Golden Dragon herself also appears in Four, as well as in Six. Hmm. Dragon-headed warriors? Dragons? The Dragon Lords of old? Chirine's standard, with the device of The Dragon and The Flame, drawn by some guy named Phil? Could there be a connection? That's for me to know, and for you to find out...)

    So, yes, there's a lot of family history, but we're now getting into 'spoiler' territory, and I don't want to wreck any of the fun for you. I am now at 115,325 words, and starting to really pick up the pace. The stories are flowing faster then my dyslexic fingers can type them...

    Much more to come; keep asking those questions!!!

  9. #1499
    The hell is this? yosemitemike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    I've been told that this is not what's been described to me as "true player character agency", and that I'm "too railroady"; I've even been accused of being a "story gamer" because of the meta game running in the background. I'm both baffled an confused by all this, especially when people tell me that my gaming is not 'proper RPG play'. Well, okay, but this is what we did, back in the day.
    What the hell does any of that even mean?
    “I am certain, however, that nothing has done so much to destroy the juridical safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice.”― Friedrich Hayek
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  10. #1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by yosemitemike View Post
    What the hell does any of that even mean?
    Hell if I know; this is coming from gamers I've spoken with over the past eight years, and these seem to be popular buzz words and phrases - just like "maintaining the brand identity" in regards to Tekumel publishing gets bandied about. Or like "Gamist"? "Narrativist"? "Simulationist"? for that matter. (Phil was all three, often in the same game session. Just saying.)

    I get this kind of thing from self-identified 'OSR' people, and from equally self-identified 'indie' people. Both ends of the gaming spectrum have also told me that we were also "too loosey-goosey" and "too handwavy" as well, when I describe the way Gary, Dave, and Phil played - heck, for that matter, I've been told that Dave Wesely ran the Braunsteins 'the wrong way'. From what I understand, those old guys didn't 'get' the right way to play, back in the day, and have had to be 'corrected' on their errant ways through the use of "proper interpretation" and "enhanced game mechanics".

    Well, all right, I'm cool with whatever one wants to play in one's own campaign. I play the way I've always played, and I'm not likely to change that anytime soon. There seem to be some people who have an issue with that; sorry, but I am what I am; they can play their games, and I will play mine.

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