Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

[QUOTE=AsenRG;868468]1) I'm even more amazed now.
2) I'd say, forgive me for my frankness, that they were focused on the wrong thing.
3) About 3800 of those visitors included...
4) They seem fun, I'll grant that.
5) I guess so. Thinking of it, the group has changed completely. Maybe I should give some suggestions to the current roaster of players.

/QUOTE]

a. Yes, and so was I. All day Friday, and we all watched in stricken awe as the three of them did everything but bash the passing gamers over the hard to get their attention. It was one of the most surreal moments in my oft-times surreal life. I simply couldn't get my head around the situation. Three pretty young ladies in wisps of lame, vs. a dice simulator? Really?

b. I think you're right, but these two guys were gamers, and had a gamer's focus. Air Force people call it things like 'target fixation' and 'going head down in the cockpit', and these guys - as well as the passing gamers - had it in bucket loads. Arneson thought that it was hilarious that once he was standing at their booth, they got all sorts of traffic - Dave kept chortling about him being 'prettier' and 'more attractive' for two days, and kept on laughing about the situation for months.

c. Agreed!

d. Oh, they were; we had a lot of laughs all the rest of the weekend, we had a lot of fun doing some 'role-playing' at the booth. It was a very good time, and the icing on the cake was the Adventure Games guys being totally unable to figure out why my Tekumel merchandise was screaming off the table at supersonic speeds.

e. Well, play what you want to, and how you want to - it's all about you and your friends having fun!

"Lord Chirine, you -"
"- really should introduce us -"
"- to your friend, because -"
"- you're telling him -"
"- our story!"

Ah. They're right, as usual. "Lord Asen, may I introduce Menwe, Sitre, and Ten'er? Ladies, Lord Asen, of whom I have spoken..."

(in chorus) "Hello, Lord Asen!" [Well, there are three of them...]

And yes, I have loved the figures from Dark Fable - after some three decades, I finally have all of the 'palace people' that we met in our adventure, and I can put faces (albeit 28mm ones) to all of these people. One of the real joys of gaming with Phil was watching him playing the NPCs; he could, and did, have conversations amongst them, doing all the parts by himself, and it left you sitting there in astonishment. He really was good - and it was very obvious that quite a few of the people that we'd meet were real people he'd met on his travels. It was part of the wonder...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

.... you know, you and I may be the only ones left who remember
"The Journal of the Whills"...

Nah. But this is the wrong forum for that sort of Star Wars trivia.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

And I met this young guy named Mark who had some really funny stories.

.... you know, you and I may be the only ones left who remember
"The Journal of the Whills"...

Yep. A long time ago, at a convention far, far away...

Originally Posted by Bren

Nah. But this is the wrong forum for that sort of Star Wars trivia.

Gotcha.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Uncle,

Just wondering how your player's fared underneath The Pyramid of Doom? What kind of nasties did the encounter? Hlutrgu...? Did they find any treasure? Or did they just find their demise...Any particular way you determine who or what's in the cards(besides random tables, or whim)?

PS Questions to follow...

Right. First, there will be a short rant that you should feel free to ignore, and then I'll talk about how I set up a game like this.

[Rant follows.]
Well, yes, it is the second Saturday of the month, and normally we'd have played out this second half of the adventure. However, the players were all busy, and I doubt we'll be back to this game until January. It's been very difficult, over the past couple of years, to be able to get people together for gaming any any sort of regular basis; people have lives, and things like school do get in the way. It has not helped the group that we took a lot of hassle from various organizations, legal and otherwise, trying to get control of what's in my head. My memories (and my collections) are regarded by some people as 'collectable' and 'valuable as investments', and my book also seems to be seen as 'the pot of gold at the end of the Tekumel rainbow' for anyone who can get control of the property. All of this has had a very negative effect on my younger players, who all have better (and more fun!) things to do with their time then be served legal papers when gaming here at the house by the very people - the 'senior gamers, also called "Barker's Own", by some Tekumel fans - that they looked up to and respected. It's the same sort of mindless and ultimately pointless 'politics around the Petal Throne' that has dogged Tekumel for years.

To summarize thirty-some years in a nutshell, there are people out there who firmly believe that it's better to have no Tekumel then a Tekumel that's outside their control. I'm sick and tired of the feuding factions all kicking me, just 'cause "Chirine has all the good stuff, and we want it for ourselves." It's gotten old.
[Rant ends. Thank you for your patience. ]

Okay; back to the game. In this case, I made sure to have two possible entrances to the presumed Underworld on the table. This will be a true three-dimensional game, as you can go up inside the pyramid - it has four levels and does come apart for access - as well as the below-ground level. In past games, the creatures of the Underworld have managed to come up one of the unguarded shafts and surprise the players. It's much more entertaining, they way.

I like to make some quick sketches of the levels, and then I'll lay them out on the table with my set of modular Underworld tiles; I use wooden blocks (from IKEA, actually) to do walls, as these allow for better access and visibility for the players. I like to steal my floor plans from historical sources, either something that Phil did or something that he liked - I use Ancient Egyptian tomb plans a lot, as this was something that Phil did. Generally, I design 'one-off' complexes like this so that the closer and closer one gets to the center, the richer the rewards - and the more dangerous and risky the adventure. The 'gaming well' of my table is 48" x 48", and this allows for some pretty extensive Underworlds; you might want to have a look at the videos I have on You Tube of a similar game.

Generally, I don't use random tables to stock the Underworld. I think about what the rooms would be used for, in their historical contexts both in the real world and in Phil's; his Jakalla Underworld is full of closets and storeroom for the use of the people who live and work down there. I do the same thing; I then stock the rooms with all sorts of goodies, using my collection of 'detail' stuff. Barrels, weapons racks, thrones, statues, you name it - I got it. I also always make sure to make notes and take photos of whatever I've built, so that if we ever need to go back there, I can recreate the entire underworld as need be.

Next, I work up who's already there; no Hlutrgu, as you would really not be finding them in much of any situation other then along their nasty swamplands. However, this is not an issue, as Tekumel is very well-stocked with Dire Perils, and I have a lot of them on the shelves. Since this is a tomb complex, I would expect to find a lot of Undead, so out come the boxes of Undead and I play the role of the Ancient High Priest who originally stocked the place up with hordes of Tomb guardians. Each group is given a specific set of instructions, unless there will be a 'live' player to run them - this is a great job to give guests and visitors! - and they will act as per those instructions. This is as per Phil's practice; he used to note that the Undead are not the smartest beings around, and usually have to be directed by a live intelligence for maximum havoc. Luckily for me, I have some of those, too.

I can't say that I work all this out by whim; I go from what I saw and encountered in Phil's campaign, and his usual practices when he did stuff like this. I do keep careful notes, though, and I refer to these when the players find something. I should also note that the players can't see into anything unless they actually look through the doorway or go into a room; I use black paper to cover the rooms until they do this.

And I should also say that one does not need miniatures for all this; big sheets of paper, or the modern battle mats, will work just as well. Once the play starts, it pretty much runs itself, and all I do is facilitate what the players are doing.

Does this help?

This is a continuation of the previous post, but I'd like to step back for a moment and talk gaming philosophy, as it was practiced back in the 'pre-school' days. (I like to think of myself as a 'pre-school gamer'.)

It was the custom, back then, for the GM/referee to be the one to design and stock the particular scenario; a lot of this may have been because it was also usually the person running the game was also the one hosting it at their house or at the shop/club. The GM would draw up all the rooms or buildings, then devise what was in them. The players, in their exploration of the venue, would then find or not find things, and run into whatever Dire Perils had been set in place for them to find.

We played - and we're talking in my games and in Phil's - what would be called 'sandbox play' these days; the players made their own adventures, and it was up to the GM to stay ahead of them. It was more or less what Gronan's described as 'Free Kriegspiel', where the GM/referee ran things and was a very neutral party - my job is as a GM is to facilitate the players' adventure, and to let them do their thing. This does have some perils for the GM; a very active group can get way ahead of you, and a very passive group can bore you to tears. I've had both, over the years, and I tend to select my home gamers for the former; staying ahead of them is just as much for for me, really!

I, as GM, always knew what was in the chest in the room. It was up to the players to look in it or not, as they chose; it wasn't my issue. It was also my job to maintain the 'meta-campaign', the larger world-setting that the players moved about in and lived in as members of their society; I did all the backstage stuff, as we've mentioned in this thread, based on all the parameters that Phil had set out in his works. The players did what they wanted to, and had to deal with the consequences.

I've been told that this is not what's been described to me as "true player character agency", and that I'm "too railroady"; I've even been accused of being a "story gamer" because of the meta game running in the background. I'm both baffled an confused by all this, especially when people tell me that my gaming is not 'proper RPG play'. Well, okay, but this is what we did, back in the day.

It kind of makes me want to post a warning sign on the door, or something.

That's a great post, and "Real Soon Now" I want to expand on something Chirine said.

One major difference between Tekumel and what came earlier is that Phil built Tekumel FIRST, and then the idea of the game came along. However, Blackmoor and Greyhawk both came out of games first; there was CHAINMAIL, and the Castle and Crusade Society, and Dave started Blackmoor RPG type adventuring in the "Great Kingdom" of the Castle and Crusade Society, and still had wargame elements in it. And Gary played, and fell in love with the "Fun House from Hell" aspect and turned the game into something more centered on that.

But still first and foremost a game, and the world came later to support the game. That's why in the OD&D rules monsters can see in the dark, and if hired by players they lose that ability (yes, the rules do say that.) It makes no FUCKING sense at all in a "world building" sense, but perfect sense in "This is a game in a pseudomedieval fantasy world about exploring THE FUN HOUSE FROM HELL". It's why, when Phil gave me guff about "what do these monsters eat" I put a McDonald's on the 6th level. In "THE FUN HOUSE FROM HELL" nobody cares about stuff like ecology.

Both approaches, I feel, are valid, but they can give you very different outcomes.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Right. First, there will be a short rant that you should feel free to ignore, and then I'll talk about how I set up a game like this.

[Rant follows.]
Well, yes, it is the second Saturday of the month, and normally we'd have played out this second half of the adventure. However, the players were all busy, and I doubt we'll be back to this game until January. It's been very difficult, over the past couple of years, to be able to get people together for gaming any any sort of regular basis; people have lives, and things like school do get in the way. It has not helped the group that we took a lot of hassle from various organizations, legal and otherwise, trying to get control of what's in my head. My memories (and my collections) are regarded by some people as 'collectable' and 'valuable as investments', and my book also seems to be seen as 'the pot of gold at the end of the Tekumel rainbow' for anyone who can get control of the property. All of this has had a very negative effect on my younger players, who all have better (and more fun!) things to do with their time then be served legal papers when gaming here at the house by the very people - the 'senior gamers, also called "Barker's Own", by some Tekumel fans - that they looked up to and respected. It's the same sort of mindless and ultimately pointless 'politics around the Petal Throne' that has dogged Tekumel for years.

To summarize thirty-some years in a nutshell, there are people out there who firmly believe that it's better to have no Tekumel then a Tekumel that's outside their control. I'm sick and tired of the feuding factions all kicking me, just 'cause "Chirine has all the good stuff, and we want it for ourselves." It's gotten old.
[Rant ends. Thank you for your patience. ]

Jesus H. Christ.

I know it's wrong to blaspheme, but honestly, I don't know what else to say.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I've been told that this is not what's been described to me as "true player character agency", and that I'm "too railroady"; I've even been accused of being a "story gamer" because of the meta game running in the background. I'm both baffled an confused by all this, especially when people tell me that my gaming is not 'proper RPG play'. Well, okay, but this is what we did, back in the day.

It kind of makes me want to post a warning sign on the door, or something.

To suggest in the spirit of eternal chumship that you ignore the banal screelings of the littermates of drones.