Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by djhyland

Thank you, Chirine and Gronan, for this thread. It's been a fascinating read, and I'm glad I found it while it's still active because I have questions to ask, too!

I've been fascinated by the Pariah gods (and the gods in general) since my introduction to Tekumel via the Man of Gold. What difference, if any, is there between the Pariah gods and the Twenty? Is it just that Pavar created an "orthodox" pantheon of the Twenty for "official" worship and left out the Pariahs, or are the Pariahs somehow intrinsically different?

On a different tack, what do you think the best thing that we, as fans, can do to increase Tekumel's popularity other than running games and introducing new people to it? From everything that's been said, helping out the Foundation doesn't seem likely to help Tekumel itself very much.

Completely unrelatedly, Chirine, are you a Gophers fan? I gather from what you say of your work that you do a lot of facilities engineering work for the U of M. Do you enjoy working the football games as a fan, or is it just another job for you?

Thanks in advance!

Thank you for your questions - this thread will stay active as long as you and people like you want it too. I really enjoy answering questions about my time with Phil and about his world; I've been doing it since late 1976, and I think I have a few years left in me...

1. Very broadly put, the Twenty want to keep Tekumel and the other 772 worlds in their current pocket dimensions, as part of their 'war' against the Lords of Humanspace. The Three want to return Tekumel to normal space, hence the background conflict of universe-spanning empires that Phil enjoyed - the Three are similar to Arisia, the Twenty to Boskone. Now, there are a lot more side issues and details to the whole subject, and I could go on forever about it - if you're local to me, then coffee and pastries would be in order.

In game terms, it's not a lot of detail that most campaigns go into - we didn't, in our time, as we had our own more immediate problems to deal with. That may be entirely different in your games, of course, depending on what you want to do.

2. Besides running games and talking about Tekumel? Not much, due to the legal and IP issues involved. However, I don't think that's a major issue at the moment - Tekumel, as a world setting, has slipped so far off people's radar that any exposure is going to be a help. Back when I worked for The Mouse, the mantra was "Perception is more important that reality." That thread that Mr. G mentions is a good example of that; so is this one. The Tekumel that we played in with Phil seems to be a very different environment that people assume it to be - the 'urban legend' that we had to learn Tsolyani to play in our games is typical of that kind of nonsense. Get out there and play the word setting - use any set of rules that you like - and then tell people how it went.

The Tekumel Foundation has said. repeatedly, that it is not responsible for 'marketing' Tekumel; their policy is that this is the job of their various licencees. If you like those products, buy them; it'll keep those folks going. I'm also told that the Foundation has also been turning down direct help from people; why, I have no idea. They, based on their actions, seem to be taking the pages out of Gail Gygax's playbook and using them as their policies.

Not my problem. I'm much more interested in talking about Phil and Tekumel, and how one can have a great time with his gift of a world-setting, then I am about the 'politics around the throne' and 'prestige'.

And re football, I do not follow sports much at all. I am not really much of a fan, so the game days are pretty much just another day at the office for me.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I think supporting a current release of the game rules like:
Originally Posted by CardinalXimenes
"And for interested parties, beta 0.4 of Swords of the Petal Throne."

This would go a long way towards drawing more people into Tekumel.
So many people will not even consider "OLD" games.
=

Agreed. Recycling old material is a really good way to put people off; new material using the setting information Phil left us is, in my opinion, A Very good Thing.

Originally Posted by nDervish

Yep. People like me. I've been vaguely aware of Tekumel since it was first advertised in gaming mags, whenever that was. Mid-to-late 80s, maybe? Never really took any notice of it until Cardinal X posted his first public draft, at which point I took a look at it purely because I'm a big fan of his work. Saw enough interesting there that I started following this and the Glorious General thread, where I saw a passing reference to "ditlana", which sparked an idea in my head for a city-based campaign which brought together several things I'd been trying to reconcile for the last 8 months or so.

Then I was reading the latest Swords of the Petal Throne draft in more detail last night and discovered that I'm basically reinventing Jakalla from first principles.

So now I have to decide whether to continue work on my own world or to scrap it and just play Tekumel instead. *sigh*

My advice - do what you find fun. "We made stuff up, and we had fun." - Dave Arneson

What we're doing here, in this thread and in what I do in the game room, is try to provide inspiration - either for the world-setting we've been enjoying for so long, or one of your own. Either way, please feel free to take away whatever you need for your games!

Originally Posted by Hermes Serpent

It would probably depend on if you are comfortable with the social aspects of Tekumel - the slavery, the stratified society and the class/clan system. If you can see those as just a way of setting the limits for the society in a planet thousands of years in the future and locked away in a pocket universe to make it a much more interesting place to play in then that's fine.

I've been aware of EPT since the first publication but could never raise any interest in playing there - too complex was a frequent cry, but I just picked up the POD of S&G vol 1 and ran a game at a UK con and started a one-shot on-line and after a little pushing got some players from the G+ tekumel community who are enjoying it so far. It's easy to run if you have a little understanding of the background and the S&G Source book does just that.

Nigel

Precisely. And you've put it very well, too!

Originally Posted by djhyland

Moreover, if you have problems with some of the social aspects but still like Tekumel as a whole, change things to your liking. If you and your group have fun with the result, that's what matters--who cares if you're Tekumel doesn't match with that of others?

Well, yeah! In Phil's games, we certainly did a lot of social stuff, but Phil never let it get in the way of The Adventure. It served as a springboard, a gloss, and a way to get us involved with the people we met along the way - just like his languages.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

SACRILEGE!!
You must bow before the One True Vision of Tekumel and feel unworthy if you are not able to match it exactly.


(If only more people didn't actually feel, "You must buy a professionally made product because only it is the True Way.")
=

Well, okay, but can you fill me in on what's The One True Vision? Phil has been quoted as saying that his games with us were not 'real Tekumel'; he was taking liberties with his own world setting - let alone his own rules! - so as to have an Adventure.

Oh, I'm just sooo confused by it all. Back to the painting, for me...