Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Greentongue

I think that a new thread would be better as it would be far off the topic of this one. Also easier to find later for reference.

Have you reviewed this method?
https://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8279

I used it for my Pulp Tramp Steamer gaming.
=

The card draw KEF method? No, I'd never seen that. It's not quite what I am looking for, but I can see how it could appeal if a greater level of abstraction is desired and if the cargo is just a background element rather than something the players are really supposed to engage with. It seems like it would better fit in a game using wealth levels than one that actually counts credits (or silver pieces).

Two things that I see as necessary to a system are (1) knowing what the actual cargo is at a level of detail* greater than just animal, vegetable, mineral, or passenger and (2) cargo value affected by location. The latter allows for stable merchant runs where a ship takes a cargo to a location with a higher value. So you get profitable trade routes like the Atlantic triangle run in the 17th and 18th centuries. Trade in both Traveller and WEG D6 Star Wars (Tramp Freighters) included values fluctuating based on point of purchase and point of sale.


* The Civilization board game (not the Sid Meyers PC game) had 18 products with 9 different base values, which seems like about the right number of products to make decisions and trade routes interesting.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

In the five empires the political climate is quite strained. In the Professor's game, who got along better, or not with who? Was there any potential for allies?

Does this effect cross-the-border clan relations?

How do the different countries view each other? What views, stereotypes, and prejudices do they have?

Thank you,

H :0)

Ah, right then. This is a little complicated, but I'll do my best - I may have to break this into several replies.

First off, look at the maps of our continent. You'll notice that each of the Five Empires is separated from each other by 'buffer zones', usually some sort of terrain that makes campaigning difficult. Phil designed in these 'frontier zones' in order to make sure that the Empires could not conduct really effective wars against each other - the histories are full of failed campaigns like the 2020 War. Instead, they provide areas where Adventures and Derring-do can happen.

Of the Five Empires, Tsolyanu has been allied with Livyanu, mostly on the theory that both don't like the Mu'uglavyani. Tsolyanu and Salarvya don't particularly like each other, mostly over the disputed Kerunan area. Yan Kor is still in the process of becoming a nation-state, and is usually more of a collection of mutually-warring little clan territories. Neither Mu'uglavya or Tsolyanu particularly like Yan Kor, as the Baron is pretty 'expansionist'. Salarvya is also more of a geographical expression then a nation-state, as the four great families are all convinced that they really need to be states in their own right. The fifth great feudal familiy is the one tied to the Temple of Shiringgayi, and they tend to be sort of neutral in their politics. There are also the small states, who tend to be allied with whomever happens to have an army sitting on their mutual border.

And, of course, the Ssu and Hlyss don't like any of us, and we don't like them.

Complicating all of this are the internal divisions and factions inside each of the larger polities. In Tsolyanu, we have the four big political parties, the Ito and Vriddi rebels, the temple factions, and the clan interests. Alliances form and dissolve all the time, and cross 'national', temple, alignment, clan, and 'political' lines. The four 'ladies' temples' in Tsolyanu are usually allied with each other, and they in turn are normally allied with their sisters in Livyanu, Salarvya, and Mu'uglavya.

So, it always pays to inquire who is allied to who at any given moment in any given locality. It shifts and changes all the time, depending on the local politics. Which is the idea, of course; how else do the Grey Mouser and his tall friend - those pesky player-characters! - find adventure and rewards?

Next reply!

Originally Posted by Hrugga

In the five empires the political climate is quite strained. In the Professor's game, who got along better, or not with who? Was there any potential for allies?

Does this effect cross-the-border clan relations?


How do the different countries view each other? What views, stereotypes, and prejudices do they have?

Thank you,

H :0)

Second reply!

Yes, is does. In the Chakas, the Tsolyani assume that the Ito Clan is allied with the Mu'uglavyani; the Red-hats, on their side, assume that the Itos are allied with the Tsolyani, and so nobody trusts them as far as they can throw them. The Itos, of course, play both sides off against each other, and indulge themselves in their own internal Northern Ito vs. Southern Ito feud. Every cross-border clan does this, and it makes life really entertaining on the frontiers.

Please see also "The Steel Bonnets", by G. M. Frasier, for a similar situation and how it plays out.

Next!

Originally Posted by Hrugga

In the five empires the political climate is quite strained. In the Professor's game, who got along better, or not with who? Was there any potential for allies?

Does this effect cross-the-border clan relations?


How do the different countries view each other? What views, stereotypes, and prejudices do they have?

Thank you,

H :0)

Third reply!

Speaking from a Chakan's standpoint...

The Tsolyani are seen as arrogant and pompous, and very full of themselves.
The Mu'uglavyani are seen as very paperwork-bound, rigid, and very full of themselves.
The Livyani are seen as being very secretive, very arrogant, and very full of themselves.
The Salarvyani, are seen as crude, bumptious, loud, and very full of themselves.
The Yan Koryani, are seen as loud, rude, crude, bumptious, and very full of themselves.
The small states are seen as dependent on the Five Empires, and of no account; they resent this, as they are very full of themselves.
The Ssu and the Hlyss don't like any of the above, and are not liked in return.

Everybody is polite to everybody else - with the exception of the Ssu and Hlyss, of course - but there isn't a lot of love lost between the Five Empires generally. Individually, of course, there are fast friendships and relationships all over the place, but on a national basis there isn't all that much in common between the Five.

Attitudes and stereotypes can best be summed up as "Would you want your sister to marry one?"

See also The Sourcebook, S&G I for more on all of this.

I'm trying to keep this short; I could go on forever about this, and bore you to tears...

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Chirine,

Thank you. I guess I will have to read the S&G sourcebook cover to cover. I've read bits and pieces that I wanted to research. The EPT intro is good, but not enough detail. I've gotten to the point where, I close my eyes and I see the geography of the Empires...But I still need to work on spelling!!! ;0)

Thanks,

H :0)

Understood. Yes, the book will give you a lot better information that I could; it's Phil's best statement on his world.

If I had one niggle about it, it's organized by subject, not by location. And there's no index, although I think one was done by Christa Donnelly and published on the Tekumel Yahoo group. Tom Thompson also did one in the early 1980s, but this is long out of print.

And don't worry about the spelling! Think in terms of their colors: Tsolyanu - blue; Mu'uglavya - red; Salarvya - black; Yan Kor - green; Livyanu - yellow, by default, more then anything else. Pijena is a nice lavender, Saa Alliqui is orange, the Shen states copper, and Mihallu white and gold.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Second reply!

Yes, is does. In the Chakas, the Tsolyani assume that the Ito Clan is allied with the Mu'uglavyani; the Red-hats, on their side, assume that the Itos are allied with the Tsolyani, and so nobody trusts them as far as they can throw them. The Itos, of course, play both sides off against each other, and indulge themselves in their own internal Northern Ito vs. Southern Ito feud. Every cross-border clan does this, and it makes life really entertaining on the frontiers.

Please see also "The Steel Bonnets", by G. M. Frasier, for a similar situation and how it plays out.

Funny, until I got to the last line I was thinking "Sounds like Gasocony during the Hundred Years' War..."

Also, for trade and cargo, both Original Traveller and Adventurer Conqueror King also have useable systems to generate trade routes.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Funny, until I got to the last line I was thinking "Sounds like Gasocony during the Hundred Years' War..."

Well, exactly; I don't know of a good book on the Gascons, though. Neither side trusted them, as near as I can tell, and probably for very good reasons.

Well, yeah. I'll have to look up Steel Bonnets. I think Frasier may be less known as a historical writer than he deserves. Ever read Quartered Safe Out Here?