Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

And the "We'll always have Tsamra" romance with Vrisa and Chirine illustrates my other point; courtship and romance are extremely compelling in a way that actual sex (except for those involved) is not.

Agreed. It was a great night of gaming, and I think we were all at the top of our form. We had a very similar night - one of the very best, people said - when Phil married Chirine off to Si N'te. Vrisa also got her husband Koro Tai at the same time; maybe it's something in the water?

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Shrug. What's a "clean" setting? I've played both Star Wars and 4 color comic book superhero games with great enjoyment, and in both those universes sex virtually doesn't exist. Except for Anakin and Padme one could get the impression that people in Star Wars procreate by budding, and in 1970s comic books there is apparently spontaneous generation. But the games were lots of fun.

The simple fact is that most of the time it doesn't matter. Further, I play RPGs to do things I can't do in real life. I've been sexually active for over 40 years, but in real life I have yet to do a 30 foot Force powered leap into a bunch of Imperial Stormtroopers and start laying about with my lightsaber.

Frankly, watching "the other group" doing sexual roleplay was more boring than anything else. "Yes, yes, you sticked it in her mouth and she went oog. Happy? Can we do something interesting now?"

If you re-read my posts, Gronan, I'm not talking about the act of sex itself. But way too many people seem to have an averse reaction to stuff like romance, and marriages and kids?
I've been told in no uncertain terms that there are tables where this simply doesn't happen. I've seen those, too, though I didn't stay around.

And don't even think of PCs walking around according to "Barsoomian fashion"! There are enough people that would explain to you how it's exploitation. Even if you're playing on Barsoom, or a Barsoom-inspired setting.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

And the "We'll always have Tsamra" romance with Vrisa and Chirine illustrates my other point; courtship and romance are extremely compelling in a way that actual sex (except for those involved) is not.

Yeah, so?

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

All right; you'll have to ask more specific questions about Gordy's writing, though.

So, anyway, this was back when I was living in Gordy and Poul Anderson's old apartment in the Bozo Bus Building (the fannish apartment building here in the Twin Cities - 343 East 19th Street, Apt. 4B, to be exact) I I get a call from Gordy; it's been raining hard, and his basement is flooding. He runs his publishing company, Otterburn Publications, from there, as the books are in real danger. I gathered up two friends from across the hall, and we go out to Gordy's house; the situation is indeed dire, and immediate action is called for. The two friends and Gordy start hauling the books up the stairs in a human chain, and I have a look at the door that leads to the exterior stairwell that leads to the basement.

I open it a bit, and close it right up again; there is about two to three cubic meters of water in the stairwell. The drain has gotten plugged up, and we're about to get inundated. I do the player-character thing, and strip off and dive into the water from outside at the top of the stairs. It's freezing cold, of course, but I manage to get the leaves blocking the drain removed, and you can feel the suction as the water starts to funnel out.

Gordy's elderly mother, the wonderful and tough-as-nails Mrs. Dickson, then throws me into warmed towels and pours hot cocoa into me. The books are saved, and Gordy gave me a water-damaged copy of his "Home From The Shore" and a bottle of Drambuie as a thank you. I still have both; he was kind enough to write me a very nice note in the book.

And it's a great story! Gotta respect someone who would risk injusry for books.
(People have fought, killed and died for stupider reasons).

And now, why did Gordon Dickson decide to write about individual war heroes, as opposed to people that are experts in logistics and leading others?
As a follow-up question, was he an RPG player?

I agree with you about 'clean' games; most historical settings have a very real undercurrent of nasty stuff, and many F/SF ones do as well. For me, and I think this is what you're getting at, there's a difference between between them being part of the game and being part of the setting.

Well, my point is, they're usually part of both.
Your PCs often need people that aren't afraid to break a law or five, given the right enticement. What are the odds none of those would be into naughtier stuff? What are the odds you wouldn't at least witness this if you develop a close working relationship with them?
Conversely, anything people are into that they want to hide, is material for blackmail. Not using it in this way is also grounds for getting closer to an NPC.
My PCs have used this in both ways, repeatedly.
That was all of my point, really.

One example that I can think of was the night in Tsamra when Vrisa 'propositioned' Chirine; he accepted, Phil nodded, and we got on with the game session. We did not make a big or graphic deal about it; it was two consenting adults being adults, and it was felt by the group to be more sweet and romantic then salacious. (My daughters, who are kind enough to read my book and offer comments, said the same thing some thirty years later - 'poignant', was the word used.)

Yeah, that's usually about as close as we get to the actual stuff between the input and the output*, too.

*Input and output are the words for "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" in the Cyberpunk 2020 setting's slang.

As Gronan writes in his reply, we just didn't game that way; we assumed that we were all more-or-less responsible adults, and we tended to behave that way when gaming. Which never stopped us from doing little victory dances when we rolled really well in a miniatures game, or whooping and hollering when things were going well; swooning and doing period exclamations of anguish - "BOGE MOI!" when my Russian T-44s would lose their crummy transmissions, or "GOTT IN HIMMEL!" when the Grant came out of the desert dust at my poor little Pz. I, for example - were also part of the game play.

Sounds totally normal for our sessions, too.
(I keep wondering how you pronounced "Boge moi", though, although usually I simply don't care about the pronunciation. So that's not a question, just saying).

My issue with the 'age-appropriate' game was not based on content, it was based on the negative reaction from the young players; they weren't thrilled at the propaganda, and wanted to know what it all had to do with the game. I try to keep the players interested and engaged; one of them actually fell asleep during the game...

I'd like to think that my book will amuse and amaze people, and give them an introduction to the Tekumel we knew with Phil. It was a fascinating place, full of mystery and adventure...

I totally understand the players' reaction.

And I sincerely hope the book will have the result you're hoping for!

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I keep wondering how you pronounced "Boge moi"...

With a bad French accent I assume.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

And it's a great story! Gotta respect someone who would risk injusry for books.
(People have fought, killed and died for stupider reasons).

And now, why did Gordon Dickson decide to write about individual war heroes, as opposed to people that are experts in logistics and leading others?
As a follow-up question, was he an RPG player?


Well, my point is, they're usually part of both.
Your PCs often need people that aren't afraid to break a law or five, given the right enticement. What are the odds none of those would be into naughtier stuff? What are the odds you wouldn't at least witness this if you develop a close working relationship with them?
Conversely, anything people are into that they want to hide, is material for blackmail. Not using it in this way is also grounds for getting closer to an NPC.
My PCs have used this in both ways, repeatedly.
That was all of my point, really.


Yeah, that's usually about as close as we get to the actual stuff between the input and the output*, too.

*Input and output are the words for "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" in the Cyberpunk 2020 setting's slang.

Sounds totally normal for our sessions, too.
(I keep wondering how you pronounced "Boge moi", though, although usually I simply don't care about the pronunciation. So that's not a question, just saying).


I totally understand the players' reaction.

And I sincerely hope the book will have the result you're hoping for!

Thanks for your replies! Let me go in order, if I could...

Well, I looked at it as this is what friends will do for friends. Still do, really, which is how I got the five daughters.

Somebody once asked Gordy about your point, and he said that it was because John W. Campbell - the big magazine editor at the time - wasn;t going to buy stories about logistics and leadership. The market wanted war heroes, so that's where he got started. Later on, he was able to move away from the shoot'emup genre, and explore some broader issues. Actual dialog:

Fan: "Gordy, why did you write that terrible story?"
Gordy: "Because Campbell paid me $750 for it, and the check cleared the bank."

Excellent point, and one that I agree with - PCs are going to be on the edge of their society, almost by definition.

Agree with this, too.

I pronounce it with a Leningrad (now back to St. Petersberg, of course) accent as that was what all my teachers spoke it with.

I'll pass it along; they were worried about it, being at my table and worrying about being rude. I didn't fault them for it, either.

We'll see what people think. I'm happily steaming away on the thing, and I am pleased with what's coming along...

Originally Posted by Bren

With a bad French accent I assume.

Nyet.

I do get my French accent from 'Allo 'Allo, however...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Fan: "Gordy, why did you write that terrible story?"
Gordy: "Because Campbell paid me $750 for it, and the check cleared the bank."

That's what my wife and I refer to as "they needed a new roof on their garage."

As fans we sometimes forget that our idols also need to make a monthly mortgage payment, put groceries on the table, buy a new car every now and then, put their kids through college, and yes, every 20 years or so they need to put a new roof on the garage.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Nyet.

I do get my French accent from 'Allo 'Allo, however...

In order.

Moi can't be right all the time.

That's one Brit show I've never watched.

And personally I'd use a Steve Martin, Exsuuuuse mee! accent.

Originally Posted by Bren

That's what my wife and I refer to as "they needed a new roof on their garage."

As fans we sometimes forget that our idols also need to make a monthly mortgage payment, put groceries on the table, buy a new car every now and then, put their kids through college, and yes, every 20 years or so they need to put a new roof on the garage.


In order.

Moi can't be right all the time.

That's one Brit show I've never watched.

And personally I'd use a Steve Martin, Exsuuuuse mee! accent.

Oh, very true. Alec Guinness has been quoted as saying that he really hated being in "Star Wars", but that "It paid for the Rolls, dear boy..."



Oh, don't look! Once you do, you'll want to start running RPGs set in the Nouvion alternate universe. And you can even do it in miniature, too, as all too many companies make the characters, the buildings, and even Lt. Gruber's "little tank"...

We did that a lot too, usually the GM referee...

Originally Posted by Hrugga

Hello,

Would you please tell us what you learned about the planning and running of adventures from your time at the Professor's table?

Also if you could talk a bit about how the Professor kept his game orginized or not? I've read that the Professor kept track of NPCs on index cards, do you have an example of one by chance?

Thanks,

H :0)

Lessions learned:

1. Don't be boring. If the players want detail, give to them, but only if they ask.

2. Know the world-setting. They will ask questions that you will need to answer.

3. Pacing - this from Dave Arneson, as well. Slow games are dull games, and you lose their interest. if the player(s) are falling asleep at the table, you are doing something wrong.

4. The 'bad guys' are usually just as motivated and skillful as the players. Play them that way. Yes, it will be more work on your part, but you will have a better game and a better campaign.

5. Think. The players are smart and clever, and they will run rings around you if you don't.

6. Plot. Take a moment to work out what the 'NPCs' might do in certain circumstances. This will save you a lot of work during the game, and make for a better game.

7. Character. Make your NPCs people in their own right, with personalities to suit - and then write them down, so you have them for later!

8. Map. Even if it's a quick sketch map, have some sort of diagram handy; if you can keep it in your head, fine, but have one. It'll save you a lot of trouble in the game. (Phil did dozens of these, over the years.)

9. If miniatures are used, then have them ready before the game. Expect trouble.

10. Create and stay with your idea of how your world works, and be consistent. Take notes as needed to stay that way; you'll be happier in future adventures.

That's a start...