Happy Birthday, indeed! I do miss the old curmudgeon.Originally Posted by Hrugga
Happy Birthday, indeed! I do miss the old curmudgeon.
From what I can see in the files and from interviews with the people involved, WoW predates EPT. Bill Hoyt was one of Phil's original PCs in the 1973 games, and after a trip to the arena suggested doing a game about the magical duels. Phil published it as a little zip-locked bag edition, and then TSR picked it up as a companion to EPT. The spell lists are traceable to Phil's long-time friendship with Jack Vance - Phil did the first maps of the Dying Earth - and what they talked about as how they felt that sorcery should work. The names are Phil's, but Gary didn't them used in EPT because he wanted a higher degree of compatibility with D & D spells so as not to confuse players - Gary had a kind of low opinion of the average player's intellectual abilities, let's say - but Phil did restore them in his later S & G. Jeff Dee's "Bethorm" continues that, to great effect I think, and is a very worthy successor to S & G.
As for the timing, I think WoW comes after Greyhawk, based on when Phil and Gary first started talking together about games. I'll go back and have a look in the files, if you like. Keep in mind that Phil first saw D & D when he saw Gronan's games at Coffman Union, so I think we're on pretty safe ground saying that Greyhawk comes before WoW - but, Phil knew Jack Vance in the 1940s and 1950s, long before Gary did. You pays your money, and you takes your chances, as we used to say.
(The Missus was out at the track playing the ponies, today, and is showing a clear profit on the Breeders' Cup races.)
Agreed. We'll see how it goes.
As for the game itself, tactically I have nothing to lose at all. Strategically, I have a lot of personal capital and planning on the line, as this game and how much or little I enjoy it may very well determine if I do or do not stay in the hobby side of gaming. I have a lot of things I am involved with and am / can do professionally in the gaming industry, and it's all about the allocation of energy, resources, and time.
(By the by, the Dark Fable Indiegogo has funded to 109%, as of this morning.)
Don't worry too much. Just think of it as the Arrgh and Warrgh Traveling Comedy Hour and let the player character bodies fall where they may. Concentrate on having fun, the rest will follow.
I don't care if you respect me, just buy my fucking book.
Formerly known as Old Geezer
I don't need an Ignore List, I need a Tongue My Pee Hole list.
The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole.
Oops, Happy Birthday to the Professor, indeed!
"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky
Yep. We'll see how it goes. Mr. S. has asked me to continue as The Bandit Chief in his TFT campaign, and we'll see if that helps my malaise.
I think my problem is that I don't feel particularly comfortable or welcome in 'modern' gaming, especially in the local scene - such as it is. Being told that I'm not a 'serious gamer' because I don't paint up 'serious figures' for 'serious games' run with 'serious game groups' has gone a great way to killing any charity I had been developing in the direction of historical gaming after all these years. I like my 'Hollywood Historical' games, and so - it would seem - do the people who get to play in them.
Where else do you get lines like Mr. T's playing the Emir of Wazoo (fighting on the side of Allah to retake Tangier from those infidels Cromwell and Rupert) pointing to Mrs. T and telling me "Have that one washed, and sent to my tent." You can't make stuff like that up, and I doubt you'd ever hear it in a game nowadays as people are just too damn serious. (Of course I have the requisite miniatures, including the bathtub and tent. What do you think I am, some kind of amateur at this?) Me, I got a great scenario out of it, with the dragoons riding to the rescue and being surprised when the supposed Helpless Damsel In Distress could shoot better then they could. Quickest failure of a morale check I ever saw, I think.
What amazes me is that we've done plenty of damn accurate historical gaming in our time; it's just not ALL we do. We did down-and-dirty in the Western Desert but also laughed ourselves silly as German and Russian armor scattered spare parts about. But we've both commented on that before; modern tastes tend to go narrow rather than broad.
I don't care if you respect me, just buy my fucking book.
Formerly known as Old Geezer
I don't need an Ignore List, I need a Tongue My Pee Hole list.
The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole.
I think you've hit on something here, my General. Very narrow indeed, and a very strong trend to only doing Official, Authorized For Use With, Approved For Sanctioned Play kinds of things. Which is funny in some ways, and very sad in others to people like me. Like the Big Tekumel Fan who didn't like TSTPT because it was "too light-hearted and fun", and not "grimdark" enough.
I'll bet I get a C & D when I paint my 'Sons of Anubis' figures up like a certain ancient Black Lab we used to have to dodge.
Ah, well. We'll survive.
Last edited by chirine ba kal; 11-04-2017 at 09:05 PM. Reason: typo
Just remember what Norman Spinrad said: "The opprobrium of assholes is a badge of honor."
I don't care if you respect me, just buy my fucking book.
Formerly known as Old Geezer
I don't need an Ignore List, I need a Tongue My Pee Hole list.
The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole.
Ha! That's good, and also true.
As a data point for you, went to the train show in the track's exhibition hall while the Missus placed her bets. Utterly fascinating! Crowds of young couples with kids looking for basic train sets (there weren't any), old guys looking for bargains (there weren't any of those, either), and lots of very disgruntled-looking cranky vendors not getting the reality that the stuff they bought for their hobby shops twenty years ago still wasn't selling. Lots and lots of old retail stuff at new retail prices, and I spent the rest of my hobby budget elsewhere today adding to Chirine's baggage train. (The Dark Fable got the first half, the Mother Earth Garden Center the second.) I'll give you a hint: the new baggage is directly related to your fun review, and works with the hand-forged iron tripod that I got some years ago from a blacksmith up on the Iron Range at the Tower-Soudan Mine. And it came in it's own wooden chest, just right for the cart guys to deal with.
We are living high on the chlen-beast, my General; roast hmellu tonight with all the trimmings! Toasted flatbread, steamed rice, veggies in a nice sauce - no boot leather for us, no sir!
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