Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Fun fact, I'm mostly a fan of T5 (and T4, by extension), MgT1/2e, and CT. Don't even ask me why, but the other Traveller variants just don't appeal to me, mechanically.
Maybe it was just the reviews, a few of which were off-putting.

However, I'd note that (it seems) the 5e GM is willing to take his group for a trip on Tekumel. They probably want to stick with 5e, from what I'd seen from the session descriptions. So it seems that the plan you suggest wouldn't be viable.


Now, Uncle, you have to talk to the GM to make sure three things are included, and that the players are aware of them, too.
First, make sure he knows, and they know, that they can't purchase magic items, and mostly can't "buy" spells. You've got to earn them, by finding them or by cooperating with an organisation that teaches them.
Second, make sure he knows that pre-made encounters aren't going to cut it. For that matter, make it clear that fights aren't going to be balanced by the players' level, unless it's the Hirilakte Arena - and even then, it's not guaranteed.
Third, explain social stratification to them, and how it works on Tekumel. It would save you lots of blood pressure spikes later, I'd bet!

Understood. We did this once before, and the players enjoyed their visit. Same thing again, but I don't know how long they will want to stay.

Uncle,

Your game, your rules, and your turf!!! I agree with the others. If they want Tekumel with 5e...let them get the material and run their own thing. It seems like they want a guide, but will go their own way anyhow. Your distant relative I'm sure would do things his way. So what if their feathers get scorched a bit. This is Tekumel...!!!

H;0)

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed with all your points. I'm still not sure about how tis will play out, as I have no idea how 5e works. Not going into this with a lot of confidence.

Well, from my limited introduction, how 5e works changes with the class. But the basics are the same - destroy the enemy's HP, and you win. Tactics are supposed to work, too, so you should be fine.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Understood. We did this once before, and the players enjoyed their visit. Same thing again, but I don't know how long they will want to stay.

Well, Uncle, if they are happy when they decide to leave, it would still be a success. As the Glorious General said, one should remember his mission's objectives!

Originally Posted by bconsidine

Sounds like it's Theater of the Mind time rather than all mechanics all the time.

Blaise

Well, at least it's time for some Theater of the Mind!

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Seems these days if there is no "product stream" there is no interest in it.
=

It more about the fact that hobbyists in general don't do the following even with a positive recommendation for a RPG or setting.

1) don't like buying from the used game market like eBay.
2) don't rely on PDFs as their primary reference for the rules.

Putting out a reprint of an older RPG or edition eliminate both barriers.

Finally for RPGs beyond the top four or five it all about social networking and word of mouth.

Originally Posted by bconsidine

Sounds like it's Theater of the Mind time rather than all mechanics all the time.

Blaise

Not so much Theater of the Mind as simplified rules that don't try to cover every case.

Chirine and I are both well familiar with the "More Rules Are Better" movement; we just never bought into it. Way back in the days of AD&D first edition Chirine coined the phrase "your mathematical construct versus my mathematical construct." That has only increased over the years.

The best way for us to think of it, Chirine, is to think of the players assembling combat robots out of the components in the rules and sending them out to fight. The trend started with AD&D but really skyrocketed with 3rd edition, where it became all about the "build." I actually saw a forum post where somebody said "I don't want to solve a situation, just have my character make an intelligence check."

I died a bit inside.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

The best way for us to think of it, Chirine, is to think of the players assembling combat robots out of the components in the rules and sending them out to fight. The trend started with AD&D but really skyrocketed with 3rd edition, where it became all about the "build." I actually saw a forum post where somebody said "I don't want to solve a situation, just have my character make an intelligence check."

I died a bit inside.

There is nothing about any particular RPGs that forces a referee to play that way. The problem is people not rules or the complexity of the rules.

When dealing with people who are obsessed with optimization it not rocket science. You knock them out of treating their character as a game piece.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Not so much Theater of the Mind as simplified rules that don't try to cover every case.

Chirine and I are both well familiar with the "More Rules Are Better" movement; we just never bought into it. Way back in the days of AD&D first edition Chirine coined the phrase "your mathematical construct versus my mathematical construct." That has only increased over the years.

The best way for us to think of it, Chirine, is to think of the players assembling combat robots out of the components in the rules and sending them out to fight. The trend started with AD&D but really skyrocketed with 3rd edition, where it became all about the "build." I actually saw a forum post where somebody said "I don't want to solve a situation, just have my character make an intelligence check."

I died a bit inside.

Ok, now i get what Chirine is talking about, with regards to 5e. If he doesn't care for AD&D and "more rules are better," then a "pure" 5e, as played by the DM Chirine is talking about, is probably not the game system for him. I know nothing about 2e, 3e, or 4e so I can't really speak about it. To be honest I didn't understand what the problem was. 5e is no more complicated than EPT, as far as core mechanics go, it just tries to cover a lot more bases like having checks for everything, should you wish it -I think that this is often forgotten. As with any game where does it say that you must use every rule a certain way, every time you play in order for it to "work"? Those players who are rules lawyers are not much fun to have anyway, and it sounds like the group Chirine is talking about might be so inclined, or at least the DM seems to be so. What ever happened to make shit up as you go along? So long as consistency in resolution is maintained what is the problem? It seems that the issue runs along play style, and that won't be easily resolved in my experience. Like all of us, we play what and how we like, and ignore/avoid what we don't like.

As I said in previous posts my group and I recently switched over from my EPT/AD&D bash up to 5e with no difficulty what-so-ever. The thing that I feel makes 5e a viable rule set for a Tekumel-based campaign is that the rules are quite intuitive. If you think something should work a certain way it probably says so in the rules already, if that's an important feature for "you." Also, it is really easy to convert EPT creature stats into 5e stats. In fact I pretty well use the EPT creatures as is with only the AC being converted and the damage changed over into a more AD&D style: 1d4 x2, or 2d8, etc.

I can say in all honesty if a player ever said something like that at my table, I would just pack up. What would be the point of continuing after all? This to me is the same as someone in wargaming saying I just want to resolve the battle, not roll dice, or worry about move distances.

Shemek.