Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Understood, and no annoyance or unhappiness taken or suffered; it's just all too right on the mark, and more then a little depressing to me to have seen Phil's astounding creation become a political football. It's like the conversation that happened years ago on the Blue Room forum (I think; it's been a while) where somebody was stating that Tekumel was a terrible thing because it was so sexist and misogynistic. I was baffled by that, as Phil didn't play that way and he didn't write that way; the poster was taking a very superficial view of the published texts - assuming that they'd read them in the first place.

There are times when I fell sorry for Phil and for Tekumel; I have a nasty suspicion that if he'd known what was going to happen in what was then the far-off future, he'd have never allowed himself to be persuaded by Dave and Gary to write EPT.

So, onward; we play the game with the cards we're dealt. I'm moving right along on TSTPT, knowing full well that it will never be allowed to have the status of 'Official', 'Authorized', or 'Approved' - which, I think, is the way it should be, as 'fan fiction' written by a group of friends who used to sit around a rickety Ping-Pong ball sharing a lot of laughs and more then a few adventures.

As has been said, "We made stuff up and we had fun!"

Good! I know its been a hassle with these guys, and I'm sure that Phil was taken aback by that comment. Unfortunately jumping off half-cocked seems to be the norm these days.

I really hope that what you said about Phil not writing EPT was what he would have felt.

Speaking of making stuff up, my Purdimal city map is coming along great. I re-read the section in MoG where they are in Purdimal, and based on Phil's quick description of the city I have come up with what I think the place looks like. I had some time today so I detailed about a dozen or so "important" NPC's that the party may want to see or encounter, and another dozen minor players that may or may not be encountered next game. These will be filed in my index card case for future use a-la Bath and Barker should they not be needed this time around. The dungeon is ready, if the party takes that route, and now I want to look at some random encounters while they poke around Purdimal.
BTW, any important Vriddi, or followers of Vimuhla, that you know of who may be of help to the party? They are all members of the Vriddi Clan, from higher lineages, and they have been noticed by the higher ups, at least what's left of them as the current campaign year is 2340, and are managing to shed the bad reputation that they previously had .

Shemek

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Good! I know its been a hassle with these guys, and I'm sure that Phil was taken aback by that comment. Unfortunately jumping off half-cocked seems to be the norm these days.

I really hope that what you said about Phil not writing EPT was what he would have felt.

Speaking of making stuff up, my Purdimal city map is coming along great. I re-read the section in MoG where they are in Purdimal, and based on Phil's quick description of the city I have come up with what I think the place looks like. I had some time today so I detailed about a dozen or so "important" NPC's that the party may want to see or encounter, and another dozen minor players that may or may not be encountered next game. These will be filed in my index card case for future use a-la Bath and Barker should they not be needed this time around. The dungeon is ready, if the party takes that route, and now I want to look at some random encounters while they poke around Purdimal.
BTW, any important Vriddi, or followers of Vimuhla, that you know of who may be of help to the party? They are all members of the Vriddi Clan, from higher lineages, and they have been noticed by the higher ups, at least what's left of them as the current campaign year is 2340, and are managing to shed the bad reputation that they previously had .

Shemek

It's been a very long couple of decades, and it's gone a long way - just as the perpetual feuding between the Arnesonians and the Gygaxians has been - to killing my interest in gaming. I mean, I still love to build my models - that's really what I enjoy a whole lot - but being told that my modeling and not gaming is a waste of everyone's time does get a little old.

Phil's letter files are both revealing and depressing, and I do feel sorry for him. He really wanted to write his novels, and the tail came to wag the dog.

I'll look this up for you in a day or so; we're in a mess here, as I've been caught by the transportation crisis in the middle of things. Not may Vriddi in Purdimal, but they're there in the Temple of Vimhula and in the Imperial offices. I'll see what I can find for you.

Yeah, I think a burst of initial enthusiasm by Phil after several months of playing in my D&D game resulted in him opening Pandora's box.

I actually was sad when all his gaming time went to Tekumel; I missed the Saturday D&D sessions at Klaber Court.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Yeah, I think a burst of initial enthusiasm by Phil after several months of playing in my D&D game resulted in him opening Pandora's box.

I actually was sad when all his gaming time went to Tekumel; I missed the Saturday D&D sessions at Klaber Court.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I don't think any of us ever expected we'd be playing for over a decade, and I know we never expected things to run out the way that they did. I think if we'd had, we'd have strangled the beast right there and then.

Yes; I think so too; he always seemed happiest when he was playing with one of his beautifully-painted armies in a game or running a PC in a session. I dunno know; we always tried to keep him amused and interested, but sometimes it was a real effort. Forty years on, I suffer from the same problem, which is why I treasure things like getting an apprentice or a new little army to paint up. Cheers me right up, it does, on the nights when the gout is bad and somebody's told me that I'm not a real gamer because I don't play in their group. To each their own, is my feeling, and why I can't be accorded the same courtesy has always been a mystery to me; I've always seemed to be some sort of threat to people, because of my abilities and skills, and it's gotten old over the decades.

Sigh. Don't mind me, my General. It's been a long 24 hours.

No worries; we all have times like that. I got my right rear bumper smashed Friday, and am not looking forward to getting that sorted out.

Originally Posted by altfritz

I've been reading "Lords of the Atlas" and I just thought I'd mention how great it is for understanding a non-western, non-modern mindset.

https://www.amazon.ca/Lords-Atlas-Ho.../dp/0907871143



If you have seen The Wind and the Lion you may recognize one or two of the character names.

I also note that Amazon has Morocco That Was, by Walter Harris. This work is, I believe, quoted in the above text and so might also ve worth a look, though I haven't yet read it.

https://www.amazon.ca/Morocco-That-W...NK82P3W076R2X7

Thank you for the recommendations!

Originally Posted by altfritz

As far as movies go, I think "The Curse of the Golden Flower" is pretty good for palace intrigue, rituals and ceremony. Can't really say any more w/o giving away the good bits.

And seconded.

Originally Posted by Zirunel

I'm not sure how much TEKUMEL reading is even required for players, let alone Earth history and ethnography.

When I think back, I was 15 or 16 when I was given the EPT boxed set, and I think what did it for me was the Professor's own summary of Tekumel history and geography in EPT.

I also think that's best.
I just wish something would do for Tekumel the kind of setting intro we have for, say, Fates Worse Than Death RPG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICClbW025uY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuARN0Oj_L4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYoof0c9jao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Kj6V9rIH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gLwYaHOs0

Five videos, made by the author, with pictures from the rulebook. Is there any of you who wouldn't know how to play in this setting?
Because I've ran a year-long campaign, where most players didn't have access to the rulebook. "Watch this, and pick a gang. Now spend these points on this, some points on this, some points on this. Let's play".

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

That local priest of Karakan... is he a clueless social bore? Because casting any aspersions on my aide-de-camp would be a MAJOR social gaffe. Of course, a language with thirty two versions of "you" has some truly eloquent ways of framing an insult without being obvious.

Ahem, Glorious General, that's NOT what he would say. It's how he feels.
As we both know, you can smile at somebody, drink his tea, and plan how best to assassinate him.
If a way of framing an insult presents itself, well, it would no doubt be taken. But that was secondary.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Thank you all for your posts - I'll be back tonight with replies. The catalytic converter was stolen off my van last night while I was at work, so we're a little busy this morning...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Thank you all for your kind words! I'm winding up having to take a day off work to deal with all the paperwork - I have 261 hours of paid vacation time accrued, so it's not an issue - as our insurance policy will pay for the repair. In the meantime, here's The Scene Of The Crime:

Attachment 1812

Nice clean cuts, I will admit. This happened between dusk and when I got off work. I called the police, and got referred to the precinct to make the report, so I was pretty late. What annoys me is that this was an original part - and had lasted over 334,000 miles.

Sigh. Back to our regular programming in a bit...

Sorry to hear that, Uncle!

I admit that I know nothing of cars, but I know a little bit of cuts. I agree with said assessment!

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Interesting point you make... I blame the Temple of Ksarul.

Shemek

People always hate us...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

And now, the news...

The van has now been seen by our insurance company, and has been declared a total loss as the 'book value' of a ten-year-old cargo van with 335,000 miles on it is less then the cost of getting the converter replaced. We've been offered $425 if we keep it, $825 if they scrap it, so The Missus is running the numbers to see if we can get a cheap ($1,000 or less) fix to keep us going or if we can find a used car for cheap. One complication is that the used dishwasher that Second Daughter was going to take for her new house is still in the back of the van, so we may have to 'borrow' it long enough to deliver the goods - unless we can find somebody with a pickup or something.

Net result, we're probably going to lose our 'heavy lift capability' that we've had for over a decade, as I don't think we'll be able to get anything larger then a regular type of car with our current budget. We're not particularly worried by this, as our need for this capability lapsed with the cancellation of the proposed Tekumel Room at Gary Con a while back; we needed cheap - read 'in-house' - lift to make that event really happen, and with it being highly unlikely that we'll ever need to do it again we really don't need to keep nursing the old warhorse along. I had a feeling, after the CinncyCon trip, that that excursion was going to be ours and the van's swan song; it took us a month to recover from the journey, and we had to put almost $2,000 into repairs to keep the van running afterwards.

While we had been hoping to get one more year out of the van, we have been preparing for it's eventual demise for over a year. All of the 'trade show booth' gear we've been building up will fit in a standard car, and if we we're being booked for a really splashy show - we can put on a show very much like the one done this past year for Gen Con about the history of RPG gaming, but specifically for Tekumel - there'll be a budget for renting a full-sized van to carry all the goodies to the show. Our plans for what we're doing in the future and how we do it are really focusing on "To Serve The Petal Throne" and we're more or less reconfiguring our in-house assets towards that end. Losing the van and the 'heavy lift' is not really a loss for us; we really haven't used it in years, except to help our friends out at CinncyCon, and we really don't want to keep putting money into a vehicle with all that mileage on it.

So, while I'm annoyed at the timing of all this - during my work week, and about a year earlier then we really wanted - we'll deal.

Well, Uncle, I'm glad it's just an annoyance! Annoyed totally beats being crushed by what is, in effect, a random encounter...

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I'm really glad you put the spoiler on this - I have been told this same statement, almost word for word, far too many times over the years. It still makes me want to vomit. There are days when I fell sorry for Phil and his creation, when I see how it's being used for political purposes.

I keep not getting how gaming can be used for political purposes. I mean, we all agree that getting rich out of gaming ain't happening. What political clout could it provide?
It's probably just a flaw in my thinking, or something US-specific, I guess.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

This was the printed set of hardcover books. Couldn't make heads or tails of it, to be honest.

Well, uncle, here's core of the system...
*You have four things to track: Fate Points, Skills, Stunts and Aspects.
*Skills encompass attributes, too. Someone with Might 2 and Fight 2 is different from someone with Fight 2 and no Might, but they fight equally efficiently (almost - some skills, like Might, give you a bonus Consequence). As a bonus, this means that you only roll the dice, getting a result between -4 and +4 (easily replaced with 2 six-siders, BTW), and add it to your skill. Got an 8 total? That's near legendary. Got a 0? Well, that's what an average person could do. If you get 3+ over the difficulty, it's Success with Style (and if you decide to lower your total result by 1, it also gives you a "free advantage" on your next roll - equivalent to using an Aspect, but with no Fate Points price).
*Fate points are just "luck of the draw, and karmic balance in action".
*Aspects are personality traits, special equipment and everything else that might help or hinder you. They can help you, if you have at least 1 FP remaining per Aspect you want to use, AND if you can explain how that works. So, the Aspect "Trained In The Sword Skills Of The Outlaws Of The Marsh" can be helpful when you fight with swords. Or it might not be. After all, there's only so many times your tricks would help.
Using an Aspect allows you to re-roll the dice OR add +2 to what you had rolled. They can also hinder you: when you defeat some bandit using "Trained In The Sword Skills Of The Outlaws Of The Marsh", but the fight is witnessed by a constable who happens to recognize them, the magistrate will want to talk with you...but you get 1 Fate Point more. Karmic Balance, again - but at least you can suggest such options to the GM, basically helping him or her to keep track.
Note: you can use anything the GM mentioned, as an Aspect of the environment. You still have to pay the price, though.
*Stunts are "rules exceptions", which aren't always in action. So, Sword Technique might provide you a +2 to swording...but not to any other attack, and not to doing stuff that pertains to swording. You make them up, the GM approves them or suggests changes.
*There are four actions you can do with any skill: Attack, Defend, Create Advantage, Overcome. Not all skills allow all of them, though: use common sense!
**Attack: hurting people, physically, mentally, socially or financially. (The Resources skill can ruin your foe, but not kill him...not directly, anyway). Physically hurting people is Fight.
**Defend: the opposite of Attack. Fight can defend against other Fight attacks, but not against a train on a collision course. Use common sense: dodging is Athletics. It can succeed with Style, and usually you have no reason not to take the boost!
**Overcome: overcome an obstacle. Athletics can Overcome a wall. Might can Overcome the same wall if it's unstable enough to be crushed by your muscles and bulk.
**Create an Advantage: when you do that, you make things easier for your next actions. It gives you the same bonuses as an Aspect, but is free. (If you Succeed with Style on the roll to Create Advantage, you get 2 Advantages - and yes, you can stack them for a +4, or re-roll a -3 and add +2). One of my favourite uses of this: pull someone off-balance with Fight, and go to town on him, bashing him in the face...hey, I mostly play wuxia with Fate).
*Wounding: you have a few Stress points, which are like D&D's HP in that they are just scrapes and luck. You lose them, you're Taken Out: the enemy decides what happens to you! (Any time you're attacked, the difference between the Attack and Defence shows who loses how much stress - minumum 0,but if you succeed with style on Defence, you get a boost).
What if you're taking 7 damage and only had 4 Stress to begin with? You can take a Minor Consequence (say, Broken Nose) to reduce the damage with 2, Serious (Broken Hand) to reduce it by 4, or Major (Open Fracture on the Arm) and reduce it by 6. Consequences have to heal...and the higher ones take longer.
You've got 1 Consequence per level, and can take more than one per attack - an attack is not just a swing, it's a combo.
If you still can't take the Stress, you're Taken Out.

There, you have the core rules of Fate. Some people manage to turn that into multi-volumes books of rules.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

In other news:

Had a grand time this past weekend; helped the folks in Fifth Daughter's game group assemble some plastic figures. I had brought my usual tool kit for painting - I paint on a side table while they play, as I'm there mostly for her transportion - and had a good time. The 5e campaign GM and some of the players have asked me back as an associate GM for their next session; I'll be providing world-setting stuff while the regular GM handles the rules. Also had one of my old players drop by when I was there at the FLGS, and I have been asked if I'll take them on as my apprentice to learn how to GM RPGs in Ye Olden Style. Then it was off to dinner with old friends, which was also a whee of a good time.

Domestically, I've been getting the game room and lounge reconfigured for our future - resetting and rebuilding for running games for guests, changing out the old displays for items that have been in storage for years - and getting our stock of display stuff ready for a new season and new purpose. All in all, a very good time

Great! And a disciple, too!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Understood, and no annoyance or unhappiness taken or suffered; it's just all too right on the mark, and more then a little depressing to me to have seen Phil's astounding creation become a political football. It's like the conversation that happened years ago on the Blue Room forum (I think; it's been a while) where somebody was stating that Tekumel was a terrible thing because it was so sexist and misogynistic. I was baffled by that, as Phil didn't play that way and he didn't write that way; the poster was taking a very superficial view of the published texts - assuming that they'd read them in the first place.

There are times when I fell sorry for Phil and for Tekumel; I have a nasty suspicion that if he'd known what was going to happen in what was then the far-off future, he'd have never allowed himself to be persuaded by Dave and Gary to write EPT.

So, onward; we play the game with the cards we're dealt. I'm moving right along on TSTPT, knowing full well that it will never be allowed to have the status of 'Official', 'Authorized', or 'Approved' - which, I think, is the way it should be, as 'fan fiction' written by a group of friends who used to sit around a rickety Ping-Pong ball sharing a lot of laughs and more then a few adventures.

As has been said, "We made stuff up and we had fun!"

Well, we would have been sorry if he hadn't written EPT.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I don't think any of us ever expected we'd be playing for over a decade, and I know we never expected things to run out the way that they did. I think if we'd had, we'd have strangled the beast right there and then.

Yes; I think so too; he always seemed happiest when he was playing with one of his beautifully-painted armies in a game or running a PC in a session. I dunno know; we always tried to keep him amused and interested, but sometimes it was a real effort. Forty years on, I suffer from the same problem, which is why I treasure things like getting an apprentice or a new little army to paint up. Cheers me right up, it does, on the nights when the gout is bad and somebody's told me that I'm not a real gamer because I don't play in their group. To each their own, is my feeling, and why I can't be accorded the same courtesy has always been a mystery to me; I've always seemed to be some sort of threat to people, because of my abilities and skills, and it's gotten old over the decades.

Sigh. Don't mind me, my General. It's been a long 24 hours.

I remind you of the old wisdom, Uncle...
"This, too, shall pass!"

And it was a long 24 hours here, too. But that's just boring stuff with banks. It seems that was just a nasty 24 hours for everybody!

More replies later on tonight; off to rescue the van. The Missus found a shop that will fix it for about what we'll be getting from our insurance company - plus a bit more, but that's all right - so the van will solider on for a bit yet. I'mm off to work this evening, then back for the discussion.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

More replies later on tonight; off to rescue the van. The Missus found a shop that will fix it for about what we'll be getting from our insurance company - plus a bit more, but that's all right - so the van will solider on for a bit yet. I'mm off to work this evening, then back for the discussion.

Great news, Uncle! I was sorry to let our old car go, too...

Originally Posted by bconsidine

The van makes its saving throw....

Blaise

Yeah, I think it rolled 5d6 under Luck!

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I keep not getting how gaming can be used for political purposes. I mean, we all agree that getting rich out of gaming ain't happening. What political clout could it provide?
It's probably just a flaw in my thinking, or something US-specific, I guess.

Great! And a disciple, too!

Well, we would have been sorry if he hadn't written EPT.

I remind you of the old wisdom, Uncle...
"This, too, shall pass!"

It's all about mixing gamer / fannish politics with real-world politics, and using Phil and his creation as a club to beat up people that one does not agree with. I don't associate with people like that, which is why I will be skipping the Blackmoor game this Sunday being run by Robert the Bald, one of the original players. I've had it with the crap over who did what fifty years ago, and who's got the biggest pile of old D&D stuff.

I'd call them 'an apprentice', but yes, it's wonderful.

Agreed.

This, too!

And thank you for the precis of the FATE game - makes a lot more sense then what I was seeing in the hard-bound books I was shown.