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Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

  1. #1531
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    Chirine, I have a question;

    you've mentioned your run in with Dashiluna, did you encounter any other Tlakotani emperors from the past in your time with the Professor?

  2. #1532
    What about my Member? Shemek hiTankolel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    I agree with you - but I'd call you a 'serious fan of Tekumel'; it's a fine semantic difference, but it's one that I've had rammed down my throat for forty years. I am, by my own estimation, a 'serious fan of Tekumel', and I've been informed by some folks - you can find them on the web - that I am most assuredly not a 'serious Tekumel fan'. See also Gronan's comments of gaming being 'serious business' at some point -.
    I think that this is the crux of the problem. You simply lack the gravitas required to fully appreciate what Professor M.A.R. Barker was presenting at the gaming table. You, and Gronan, have gotten it wrong all of these years, and you weren't paying attention when M.A.R. Barker (who, by the way was a Professor) was presenting the world he created. You weren't listening, not only when he demonstrated how to correctly pronounce Tsolyani words, but stated the importance of correct pronunciation and how integral a part of gaming on Tekumel this is. Did you not realise that Tekumel was first and foremost a serious intellectual exercise, and that gaming is a distant second, or third? No mere diversion is this wonderful milieu! Also, did you forget that M.A.R. Barker was a Professor?
    No wonder you've been getting so much flak over the years.



    Shemek

    Spoiler:
    Another serious fan of Tekumel, with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain

  3. #1533
    Bloody Weselian Hippy AsenRG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    Agreed with your points - get on with the game, and the fun follows - at least in my experience!

    When I was first handed a copy of FATE, I nearly fainted - and people think Tekumel is complex...
    I agree.

    I suspect that you have seen some variant of Fate, which is on the overcomplicated side, Uncle. Because Fate is a system that can pretty much be explained in three paragraphs.

    Quote Originally Posted by chirine ba kal View Post
    From AsenRG:
    Thank you! But of course, if it seems from the conversation that you're those "reliable and discreet people", you wouldn't be approached about the granddaughter...or am I wrong here?

    Probably not, but you never know - the question becomes "Do we want these people in our clan and family?"

    That's absolutely what I'm looking for, Uncle!
    However, a bit more detail on the NPC interactions, if I may ask for it, Uncle? I've observed that many players have some trouble approaching the NPCs that aren't from their time and place. You mentioned something like it earlier, with the guy who got thrown out of parties...and I figure some Referees might have similar difficulties, which would make them less willing to engage Tekumel.
    Can you help me to give them a primer on The Social Interaction: Tekumel Style?


    I'll try.

    So, can I suggest those five NPCs, and you tell us how to approach them? One restriction: no magic used, except as a purely social device - to impress, not to gather information, if you get my drift.

    As a detail magic (sorcery, not conjuring) is done at parties very, very rarely; usually, only as performances by the magical puppets. Conjuring, on the other hand, is a popular entertainment and you hire respected professionals. It's great fun, as the sorcerers are usually completely baffled by how it's all done.

    *The hostess. Respected worshiper of Avanthe, in her late 30ies. Looking to impress everyone above her own station, and show kindness towards those below...especially if they have interesting talents.
    Secondary goal: to get laid (her husbands don't mind, of course, but she's not about to just pick anyone who has the looks).
    =>How do you approach her?
    =>How would the seduction work, assuming a PC determines she'd be available (or simply decides to push his luck and hope for the best, as many PCs do anyway)? I gather just throwing his hand over her shoulders, and pretending it's an accident, would probably backfire...but what would be the actual steps?


    Causal touching, except between good friends, is not a social norm in the Five Empires. It's going to be much more in the line of verbal fencing, as each person sounds the other out over the canapes and cocktails. The opening gambit would be discussing the latest from the Temple of Avanthe - keep in mind that their temple parties and some rituals make the devotees of Dlamelish and Hryhiyal blush. The usual catch phrase - like the proverbial "What's your sign" and "Come here often", as heard in 'fern bars' - is making comments on "your devotion to your goddess' and how observant she is of the rituals of her temple. Casual and modest mention of one's own connections, clan, and such will also help.

    It is assumed that one had bathed, too.

    *The host. Worshipper of Karakan, like the Glorious General, early 50ies. Career officer, got up through the ranks from a low post, has serious networking among the lower-ranked officers (i.e.: might make any general's life a hell). He's trying to determine whether the new general can be trusted with actual secrets - the kind you don't tell OAL, because he believes there are people in OAL who are on the pay of the enemies of the Petal Throne.
    Secondary goal: he wants to know how much the general would ask for to look the other way on a scheme with military acquisitions he's got going, has the back-up of several bureaucrats and scribes (who either get a share, or get paid per month).
    =>How do you approach him to get the most out of this encounter?


    Ah. Mentioning the Glorious General's reputation as a 'marching soldier' and his known bravery and prowess and how one hopes to emulate him is a good foot in the door. Mentioning that one's clan has had good relations with the General and his clan will help, too. As for the wheeling and dealing, that's considered normal practice - what the General is going to be concerned with is that it's kept down to the usual percentages and is kept on the up-and-up; cheating the General or his legion is probably going to get you a visit from that Vimuhla priest he keeps around as his aide, and everybody knows just how much of a nasty bit of work that the man who helped crush the slave revolt is. Keep it on the up-and-up, and everybody's going to be happy.

    *The hostess' daughter, recently came of age, also an Avanthe worshipper. Looking to snag a guy who's better than what her mother gets...you might say she's being competitive and out to prove herself!
    Secondary: Of course, if she finds a suitable husband, now that might make her mom shut up and respect her! But marriage is a much more serious affair, and she needs a suitable one...meaning one that would help her temple career!
    =>How do you approach her?
    =>How do you present yourself as either desirable company for the night, or for marriage? (Apart from gaining the mother's attention first, obviously - that's an approach that's prone to backfiring).


    Very carefully - this girl's trouble on the hoof. Stick with temple stuff, looking interested, and be polite and personable. Move oh-so-gently away from her mother, while engaging her in conversation, and sell yourself as a decent person worthy of her attention. Her ambition will do the rest, most likely. Just be careful!

    *Local priest of Karakan. Of indeterminate middle age, part of the war-favouring faction, believes the legion of Karakan needs "live practice to avoid dulling their edge"...
    Obviously dislikes the Vimuhla priest (sorry, Uncle!) Enjoys popular/populist support with his "fire and brimstone" speeches. Is beginning to become a thorn in his superiors' side.
    Also, secretly and anonimously, is selling Zu'ur to households of Change worshippers (but recently expanded into other people he dislikes). On top of getting rich, he's planning to cut their supply once he's amassed enough support to present his plans. Talk about weakening your opposition!
    (Maybe he secretly murdered the Gruganu priest two days ago, and is trying hard to get rid of the body - which he's "hidden in plain sight". Obviously, he wouldn't tell you that).
    He's the only one who isn't looking to get laid, stoned or drunk - and would actively avoid the latter two. Think "a man with a mission"...
    =>How do you act with that one? Do you approach or avoid him?


    Once you find out his attitude, be polite and stay out of any conversations he's in; sooner or later, he's going to mouth off about all this in front of the General, who will shut him up with a few well-chosen and very cutting remarks. He's going to lose a lot of face, as a result, and probably not get invited back here. If he lips off about Chirine to the General, he's toast; while Chirine will smile and be polite if insulted, the General will pointedly remark on how his aide is a friend of Prince Eselne and of the Temple of Karakan. It will not help the guy's career prospects; the host/hostess and the General will get him transferred to the front, in a nice post with an active legion.

    And, if he shoots his mouth off too much, he's going to attract Chirine's attention, and the latter will start quietly asking around about this guy. He's going to protect his general and his legion, and this guy may be trouble. And Chirine is very good at dealing with trouble so his general can get on with winning the war.

    *Last on that list, an Aridani who serves in the Legion and has reached the rank corresponding to "major" mostly by skill at arms and being able to deal efficiently with sieges. Adopted in a high-ranking military clan because of those skills.
    Has a reputation for judicious use of extreme violence - and for good manners when not doing that. In short, she might as well be a PC!
    Due to her fair skin and eyes, her reputation includes people whispering she might really be a demon. Partly due to this, she's acting as the unofficial mascot of the legion - the soldiers argue that as long as the Demoness is on their side, their enemies should be afraid.
    (The reason for the skin and eyes: she's actually an adventurer from another world - think a Conan-like world - who fell through a one-way portal and appeared in Tekumel. After a short career as a fighting slave, she bought her freedom off - not explaining where she got the money from - and promptly joined the army).
    She'd like a way to get back to her homeworld with only a fraction of her Tsolyani wealth, but doesn't count on it - and is reluctant to share.
    Her main interest here - apart from getting drunk, stoned or laid, because it's a social event after all - is to size up the Glorious General, and understand whether his reputation is due to him having good aides, or whether he's a genuine soldier.
    =>How do you approach that one?
    =>What can you get out of a good working relationship with her?


    The General and his officers are going to like her, and he and Chirine will approach her with an offer to be on the General's staff; since she's a Molkar all ready, the senior Kasi will get her post and everybody is happy 'cause they move up a step in seniority - and some new guy, most likely a cousin, will get a commission. She's going to be a very popular officer, I think.

    Nobody's going to care where she came from, as she's going to be taken for a foreigner / mercenary - which the General himself was, at one point. She and the General are going to have a great time trading war stories and exchanging "Do You Know?" information. Chirine will cover his general's flanks by relating some good stories about just how good the General is, and that huge gold thing on his chest is going to have a lot to say as well. Looking forward to serving with her!
    Thank you, Uncle! Now I just need to make that into a blogpost.

    Sorry if some of those NPCs are more suited for My Tekumel, Uncle...but I hope they'd actually have an easy time fitting in the Tekumel you know best!

    No - all of these people, even your Aridani, could have been lifted straight from Phil's 1500 NPC cards. They're fine, and very good.
    Glad to hear that, Uncle! Because making up NPCs like that is the basis of Refereeing for me.
    "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward." - Rocky

  4. #1534

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    I've been reading "Lords of the Atlas" and I just thought I'd mention how great it is for understanding a non-western, non-modern mindset.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Lords-Atlas-Ho.../dp/0907871143

    Lords of the Atlas is a classic story of Morocco and the rise and spectacular fall of the House of Glaoua. Madini and T'hami El Glaoui, sons of a Moroccan Caid by an Ethiopian concubine, rose meteorically to power in the almost medieval state of Morocco at the end of the nineteenth Century. This is the epic story of the more than fifty years in which they governed the country in barbaric, ostentatious splendor, until their spectacular downfall in 1956. Out of the intriguing and dramatic lives of Madair and T'hami, Gavin Maxwell has fashioned an epic story set against the superb background of Marrakesh and the pinnacled castles of the High Atlas, still magnificent as crumbling ruins. A dramatic history of intrigue, action, and exotic places, and illustrated with over one hundred color illustrations and photographs, Lords of the Atlas is a stunning look at the rise and fall of one of the twentieth century's most fascinating rulers. (8 X 9 3/4, 276 pages, color photos, b&w photos, map, illustrations)
    If you have seen The Wind and the Lion you may recognize one or two of the character names.

    I also note that Amazon has Morocco That Was, by Walter Harris. This work is, I believe, quoted in the above text and so might also ve worth a look, though I haven't yet read it.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Morocco-That-W...NK82P3W076R2X7

    Here are the vanished days of the unfettered Sultanate in all their dark, melodramatic splendor-a mingling of magnificence with squalor, culture with barbarism, refined cruelty with na‹ve humor. Until 1912 Morocco never suffered foreign domination, and its mountainous interior was as closed to foreigners as Tibet. Walter Harris (1866-1933), though, was the exception. He first visited in 1887 and lived in the country for more than thirty-five years, and as the Times correspondent had observed every aspect of its life. He was an intimate of at least three of the ruling Sultans (as well as King Edward VII) and a man capable even of befriending his kidnapper. It was said that only three Christians had ever visited the walled city of Chechaouen: one was poisoned, one came for an hour disguised as a rabbi, and the other was Harris. Originally published in 1921, Morocco That Was is alternately sharp, melodramatic, and extremely funny. "The combination of perceptive and reliable observer, and romantic eccentric, makes this book a classic of its genre."--Times Literary Supplement.

  5. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by altfritz View Post
    I've been reading "Lords of the Atlas" and I just thought I'd mention how great it is for understanding a non-western, non-modern mindset.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Lords-Atlas-Ho.../dp/0907871143

    If you have seen The Wind and the Lion you may recognize one or two of the character names.

    I also note that Amazon has Morocco That Was, by Walter Harris. This work is, I believe, quoted in the above text and so might also ve worth a look, though I haven't yet read it.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Morocco-That-W...NK82P3W076R2X7
    Nice! I hadn't read either book, thanks for the recommendations

  6. #1536
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    Unfortunately, while this is great and I personally am interested in this type of thing.
    presenting potential players with a reading list doesn't always go over well.

    I think a movie might be more acceptable.
    Not only is it something that more people these days are likely to do but,
    all the people interested in the Tekumel game could watch it together.
    =

  7. #1537
    Senior Member Hrugga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentongue View Post
    Unfortunately, while this is great and I personally am interested in this type of thing.
    presenting potential players with a reading list doesn't always go over well.

    I think a movie might be more acceptable.
    Not only is it something that more people these days are likely to do but,
    all the people interested in the Tekumel game could watch it together.
    =
    Hello,

    This might be an option for you then. It has movie suggestions included...It is the Recommended Reading, Viewing And Listening From The T�kumel Yahoo Group List. If you have not see it yet.

    H:0)

    P.S. It may be for the serious Tekumel fan...I think you know the deal.
    Last edited by Hrugga; 10-16-2017 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Addition

  8. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentongue View Post
    Unfortunately, while this is great and I personally am interested in this type of thing.
    presenting potential players with a reading list doesn't always go over well.

    I think a movie might be more acceptable.
    Not only is it something that more people these days are likely to do but,
    all the people interested in the Tekumel game could watch it together.
    =
    I didn't get a sense either book was recommended as required reading, for players or anyone else. Any more than Korda's Thief of Baghdad is required viewing. But I will always appreciate being pointed toward something I might find interesting.
    Last edited by Zirunel; 10-16-2017 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentongue View Post
    Unfortunately, while this is great and I personally am interested in this type of thing.
    presenting potential players with a reading list doesn't always go over well.

    I think a movie might be more acceptable.
    Not only is it something that more people these days are likely to do but,
    all the people interested in the Tekumel game could watch it together.
    =
    Ha! I just thought of a movie version of these books (sort of): the 1953 version of Desert Song. Sort of a 20th century Arabian Nights with machine guns, and the mysterious Red Shadow leading the Riffs against the evil sheikh (who is presumably modelled on one of these Moroccan warlords). I didn't actually enjoy the film as much as I hoped; it's partly a musical, and a rather silly one with some surprisingly low budget touches, but it is the kind of bad movie that can give you a chuckle or two, and most of all.....it is a movie
    Last edited by Zirunel; 10-16-2017 at 02:29 PM.

  10. #1540

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    Zirunel is correct. I wasn't suggesting reading for players but possibly GMs, or even just anybody really. Lords of the Atlas is all about a 50+ year power struggle in a completely alien culture (to Westerners). There are lots of deep, dark dungeons and heads on stakes, harems galore, and a whole ton of back-stabbing and betrayal. And a lot of funny stuff as well.

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