Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

I've responded in bold, in text to your post.

Originally Posted by estar

I find the more sophisticated computer wargames I own very immersive but aside from that is quite doable to play pen & paper wargames (pen & paper, miniatures, etc) 'as is' over the internet with software like VASSAL, Virtual Tabletop, or Roll20. With anything that has a dice roller and whiteboard really.

I have to try VASSAL, as I think that it may allow me to do some old school hex and chit war gaming on line. I've been mulling over the idea of doing a Tekumel game on Roll20 for some time now...


But the good computer wargames that are out there are really that good! For example Crusaders Kings 2 is unbelievably addictive and immersive as you play successive members of a dynasty over centuries of play. The basic game play is that you pick a noble (or wealthy patrician of a Merchant Republic) and try to guide your realm while finding a good marriage and raising your kids right so you have an heir and allies. When you die, you switch to playing your heir. The game models Christian, Islamic, and pagan cultures from 768 to 1358. And ends in 1453 or if you have no heir for your dynasty.

Sounds good, but I personally would rather do this face to face, and I enjoy the interaction and conversation that one has with a live opponent.


Many, like Crusader Kings 2, have a multiplayer option. But yeah I know what you are talking about. It would be nice to have a multi player option for Ultimate General: Civil War.

However the iPad in particular has apps for many of the more sophisticated board/war games like Settlers of Catan, Lords of Waterdeep, Star Realms, hell even Risk. And many of them have multi player options including pass and play. Once my friends and I played Settlers of Catan while waiting forever in line for our badges at Origins. The general idea of this mode is you play your turn, hit a button and the screen goes into a wait mode. You pass it to the next player and they hit the button again and see their setup.


I know, I get it, there are some good computer games out there, and I'm sure I should investigate them more, but they really aren't what I'm after these days. The few that I have are OK, but more so for infrequent play, and not as a replacement for more traditional formats.


Shrug, I agree with you for the most part except that I have to say it depends on the game you are talking about. Like pen & paper the rule engine of the computer wargame vary in quality. And people bitch about them the same way I used to see in Strategy & Tactics, Ares, Dragon Magazine, and conventions back in the day.

Differences of opinion. That's what makes for a good horse race.

-snip-



The interest is there and there are people who do that, you just have to look. For example are you aware of this group.

https://www.hmgs.org/

They run two conventions a year.

Or did a search on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...re%20wargaming

Or a search for miniature wargaming in Cleveland Ohio (to pick an arbitrary place)
https://www.meetup.com/Northern-Ohio...x4HHBx9fQWh1sl


I've done these types of searches and have not come up with anything. The problem is the area where I live, Southern Ontario, is just a desert when it comes to clubs and venues for regular historical miniature war gaming. Someone on TMP described the gamers in this are as being insular, and I tend to agree.

Sorry if I sound critical. There are two things that symbolizes our era. One is that the Internet has made it incredibly easy to people with like interest to find each other. Just like we are talking right now with me in NW PA and you where ever you are. But we are also drowning in information and developing mental filters so sometimes we fail to see what going on in front of us even though it just a few search away.

Yes I agree with your assertion, forest for the trees and all that, but I don't think it actually applies in my situation. I've done the leg work, but have not been able to find a regular group of historical war gamers in my area.

Of course there is the timeless problem of are any of these groups people you want to hang out and game with. So even if you do find something it could be great or could be incredibly frustrating.

That's a whole other problem.

My view is that during and since the late 70s/early 80s boom Skirmish style wargames were always more popular. It just now it is in our face because of the fact we are in the midst of a second golden age of boardgaming.

I'm not sure how popular skirmish games were back in the day, as the only one that was aware of and played was ASL, but you may be right. The second golden age of boardgaming is a wonderful thing, and the sheer number of choices available these days is great.

In Western PA it is the major World War II games like Memoir 44 and Flames of War. However the most by war the most popular miniature wargames are Warhammer and Heroclixs.

I think that it's the same in Southern Ontario.

Shemek

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Huh??? Yes it certainly would be. Thanks for the save Chirine.
Shit! I wonder what the hell happened to the link I inserted when I initially posted it? It was there on the preview screen. Sabotage! Sabotage I tell you.
I agree with using this as a reference when deploying troops. If I ever deployed this many troops on the table in my current Tekumel game there would be a tonne of groans and WTF's coming from the players. It would be quite funny actually.

Shemek

You're welcome! Happy to help!

(If I may make a possibly immodest statement, I can put that many troops on the table. I build out my legions on a 1:100 scale, so I have a lot of 80-figure units. (It does make for an impressive sight, in my personal opinion.) It gives me the capacity to play out in miniatures any of the battles that Phil wrote about of that we played in.)

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Of course you do, because you don't seem like the type person who rushes headlong into anything, and you understand the notion of "big picture." Like I have said in previous posts I wish I was closer to the Twin Cities. I'm sure that we would have some epic battles on the tabletop.

Shemek

Agreed, on all points. The game room is always open for you, if and when...

Originally Posted by Baron

Pity he went to all the trouble of filming the battles in Europe. When to my eye, it still looks like the California hills just outside Los Angeles.

It was cheaper. The Spanish Army regularly rented out troops, tanks, and planes for film use, and shipping from Cine Citta was simply a truck run away - they had enough costumes, after all...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Watching Mike Reese run Tractics at GaryCon has been very educational. He runs platoon level stuff, and Tractics works a treat for that. Using all the data in von Sanger und Etterlin to resolve a regimental level battle ... um... takes a while.

Agreed. I'd use a computer for the number-crunching if we were running a bigger game.

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Way back in the 70s in the Twin Cities, William Crolley (By the way, Chirine, Bill passed away a couple of summers ago, I don't know if you knew. He was only 60. )

Just last August at GenCon while running "Battle on the Ice" I heard a German player say "We've destroyed three of their units and they've only destroyed two of ours."

I broke my rule of not commenting and said, "You'd better reread your victory coniditions."

Their victory conditions were "Kill or capture Prince Alexander". They never even asked which unit had his banner.

Also, there are a lot more Novgorod units than Teutonic ones.

No, I hadn't heard. Nobody told me. (And I'm sixty, so it does hit home.)

Had none of them seen the damn movie??? What am I thinking - of course not...

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Yowch. Those are SUCKY terms.

But believe me, Chirine and I realize how much small stores are over a barrel.

Agrred, which is why I try to help them out as much as I can with games and demos. Sometimes they book me, sometimes they don't.

Originally Posted by bconsidine

For the group: If you wanted to run a Tekumel-themed Braunstein or a full-on miniatures battle, which of the readily-available rulesets would you use? I'd like to do exactly this, and wouldn't mind some suggestions. I was going to use Chainmail for the Braunstein, but alas, my book's gone missing.

Blaise

"Chainmail" will work just fine for movement and combat resolution. If you're doing Tekumel, may I suggest "Qadardalikoi" - it's a little newer than "Chainmail", admittedly, but people who have played it seem to like it for the quick pace and the 'local flavor'. If Tita's House of Games is out of stock, I think I might have a few copies sitting around the place...

Originally Posted by bconsidine

Would you recommend Chainmail for a large-scale battle as well?

Blaise

Yes, but run a couple of practice battles first so you have the rules down before you let the players loose.