Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Thanks for the explanation.

How has it nearly killed your store?

I had to sign in for three months of 3 or 6 of all new releases if I wanted to get the new edition. It was preorders first or not at all. Worse still one of my competitors has been carrying Battle Front's "Tanks" game for a while and looked very likely to get into FoW with the new edition. My store's always been hanging by a thread as it is but tying up around $4000 to get what's turned out to be about $100 in sales, well, that hurt, a lot. Now the competitor is getting into Flames of War but I'm ready for him. He orders through Alliance, I get it direct from Battle Front and I have pretty much 3 of everything on the shelf. There's a tournament coming up so hopefully the stock will finally move and get me out of this damn cash crunch.

Yowch. Those are SUCKY terms.

But believe me, Chirine and I realize how much small stores are over a barrel.

I did get free, sizable German and British armies out of it.

The funny thing is that if I had $500 for an order right now it would go to Battlefront. I'm stuck with all this desert war stuff but I'm running low on late war. After that D&D books, Reaper Bones miniatures, and dice. Beyond that I'd really like to get in Mantic's Warpath stuff, Mutant Chronicles Warzone new edition and newer releases, and GURPS core books that I can finally get from SJG pod. I think my biggest frustration is that I'm trying to promote new and different things and build player bases for games but the publishers often drop the ball. Most of GURPS has been out of print for years. Mantic dropped Warpath twice and tends to chase the latest shiny licence to the exclusion of their own games. Battlefront had a rocky start moving to plastic figures and their softback book bindings had a nasty tendency to fall to pieces the day they're purchased.

They really just lie hidden in ambush and are represented by a scout vehicle until line of sight is achieved. I wish my Romanian TACAMs could do that.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I wasn't really talking about exposure to wargaming as such, but the whole notion of actually using tactics and immersing oneself in the scenario, and not treating it as an episodic "computer game" type of event.

I find the more sophisticated computer wargames I own very immersive but aside from that is quite doable to play pen & paper wargames (pen & paper, miniatures, etc) 'as is' over the internet with software like VASSAL, Virtual Tabletop, or Roll20. With anything that has a dice roller and whiteboard really.

But the good computer wargames that are out there are really that good! For example Crusaders Kings 2 is unbelievably addictive and immersive as you play successive members of a dynasty over centuries of play. The basic game play is that you pick a noble (or wealthy patrician of a Merchant Republic) and try to guide your realm while finding a good marriage and raising your kids right so you have an heir and allies. When you die, you switch to playing your heir. The game models Christian, Islamic, and pagan cultures from 768 to 1358. And ends in 1453 or if you have no heir for your dynasty.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Computer games, which I also enjoy tremendously, (John Tiller's Civil War Battles, and Modern Campaigns are great, and can be used on Android, Kindle and iPad based devices) and in fact are the only type of wargaming I do these days, are not the best substitute for a real opponent.

Many, like Crusader Kings 2, have a multiplayer option. But yeah I know what you are talking about. It would be nice to have a multi player option for Ultimate General: Civil War.

However the iPad in particular has apps for many of the more sophisticated board/war games like Settlers of Catan, Lords of Waterdeep, Star Realms, hell even Risk. And many of them have multi player options including pass and play. Once my friends and I played Settlers of Catan while waiting forever in line for our badges at Origins. The general idea of this mode is you play your turn, hit a button and the screen goes into a wait mode. You pass it to the next player and they hit the button again and see their setup.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

The AI can often be too predictable, and too often the "solution" to a scenario devolves solely into surrounding individual enemy units and isolating them. Fine, this is a good tactic, used brilliantly by real world, modern, maneuver type armies, but it's not the only way to skin a cat. Also, I don't feel that surrender and morale is always covered as well as it could be.

Shrug, I agree with you for the most part except that I have to say it depends on the game you are talking about. Like pen & paper the rule engine of the computer wargame vary in quality. And people bitch about them the same way I used to see in Strategy & Tactics, Ares, Dragon Magazine, and conventions back in the day.

And then there is the whole modding thing. The Paradox Wargames like Crusaders Kings and Hearts of Iron are particularly prone to this. Every major version there are people who don't feel like it realistic enough or has something wrong and mod the game to do what they want. And some are just as organized as the original developers. For example CK2 has a Game of Thrones mod that every bit as detailed and supported as the historical timeline of the main release.

And from the limited participation I had in these communities the topics, tone, and tenor of their conversation mirrors all the accounts of how it was back in the day in the 60s and 70s. Sure the tools and medimum are vastly different but the spirit lives on.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Most of the "serious" wargamers back in the day, and by serious I mean those who either played these games very frequently, or only played these types of games, were also "students" of history. They read the memoirs and personal accounts of the participants, they read what historians had to say, they re-fought the same battle multiple times in order to achieve a particular result, or see what would happen if a certain variable was added or removed, etc.. I just don't see this as being as widespread today amongst the typical new generation of wargamers.

See above about modders. Hearts of Iron has some very serious world war II ent

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I wonder, how many modern wargamers would go to the bother of actually reading a historical of Chickamauga, or study a map of the terrain before fighting the battle...

The interest is there and there are people who do that, you just have to look. For example are you aware of this group.

https://www.hmgs.org/

They run two conventions a year.

Or did a search on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...re%20wargaming

Or a search for miniature wargaming in Cleveland Ohio (to pick an arbitrary place)
https://www.meetup.com/Northern-Ohio...x4HHBx9fQWh1sl

Sorry if I sound critical. There are two things that symbolizes our era. One is that the Internet has made it incredibly easy to people with like interest to find each other. Just like we are talking right now with me in NW PA and you where ever you are. But we are also drowning in information and developing mental filters so sometimes we fail to see what going on in front of us even though it just a few search away.

Of course there is the timeless problem of are any of these groups people you want to hang out and game with. So even if you do find something it could be great or could be incredibly frustrating.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I think that this goes a long way in explaining the popularity and dominance of skirmish style wargames.

My view is that during and since the late 70s/early 80s boom Skirmish style wargames were always more popular. It just now it is in our face because of the fact we are in the midst of a second golden age of boardgaming.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

In your opinion what would you say is the most popular historical miniature wargame these days? What about fantasy miniature wargame? I think that WH is no more, at least in the form that it was when at the height of its popularity?

Shemek

In Western PA it is the major World War II games like Memoir 44 and Flames of War. However the most by war the most popular miniature wargames are Warhammer and Heroclixs. But I play only at cons as my hobby budgets goes toward RPGs and miniatures for RPG use. If I play I would likely use AD&D Battlesystem in support of my Majestic Wilderlands campaign. Although I have a copy of Chainmail and enough human D&D miniatures to field a regular army.

Originally Posted by bconsidine

For the group: If you wanted to run a Tekumel-themed Braunstein or a full-on miniatures battle, which of the readily-available rulesets would you use? I'd like to do exactly this, and wouldn't mind some suggestions. I was going to use Chainmail for the Braunstein, but alas, my book's gone missing.

Blaise

You can buy a legal copy of 3rd edition for $5 here. It print off nicely.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...atures-0e?it=1

Originally Posted by bconsidine

Would you recommend Chainmail for a large-scale battle as well?

Blaise

Considering that's what it was written for, yes.