Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Well, I was talking about the RPG set in their Warhammer world, so the wargamers' culture is irrelevant. But thank you for your observations!

Amusingly, Warhammer seems to be the main wargame people are playing in my country, though I'm no expert. However, the few I know are good friends, so I've avoided from the "obnoxious" part. Maybe the local wargamers have dealt with the assholes, or maybe my friends just took care not to introduce me to them (they know my likely reaction), I can't really tell.
And of course, I never really got into wargames (I only started developing an interest recently, mostly under your and the Glorious General's influences), so I didn't buy an army, and thus avoided the "overpriced" problem, too!

Oh, right. we never really saw the RPG here in the Twin Cities; it was almost all 40K with some of the fantasy stuff. Neither appealed, for all sorts of reasons - especially GW's marketing pushes.

It can be fun, and I would not want to detract from that. Here locally, you either spent tons of money to be a serious contender, or you were a impulse buy who dumped armies like empty soda bottles. I got a lot of cheap figures, that way.

What are called 'wargames' these days are a lot of fun, if you have people playing who are decent and smart. I've met a lot of jerks, though, which is why I play so little these days.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Oh, right. we never really saw the RPG here in the Twin Cities; it was almost all 40K with some of the fantasy stuff. Neither appealed, for all sorts of reasons - especially GW's marketing pushes.

It can be fun, and I would not want to detract from that. Here locally, you either spent tons of money to be a serious contender, or you were a impulse buy who dumped armies like empty soda bottles. I got a lot of cheap figures, that way.

What are called 'wargames' these days are a lot of fun, if you have people playing who are decent and smart. I've met a lot of jerks, though, which is why I play so little these days.

Chirine,

Unfortunately I think that the types of "wargames" that we knew are all gone in any type of public/formalised/organised setting. I'm not sure what it's like in your neck of the woods but up here it's Warhammer (in all of its incarnations) or some other type of skirmish game which, quite honestly, bore the hell out me. Just try and find a good old fashion SYW, or Napoleonic, or ACW gaming session that uses actual battalions, regiments or, god forbid, full brigades in any of the so called FLGS. You'd have better luck finding a snow ball in July. Bolt Action and Flames of War seem to be popular these days, but it's bloody skirmish level again. If I wanted to play squad based games I'd sure be using ASL (adapted to miniatures) before I wasted my time with BA or FoW. Most historical miniature gaming, such as it is, seems to be done amongst friends at home, and actual gaming clubs simply don't exist up here, or at least I have never been able to find any. Too bad really, as I would love get my Imperial Russians and Generalissimo Suvorov out on the table and square off against Old Fritz.
BTW, out of curiosity, is anyone on this thread interested in SYW wargaming, and in the GTA? PM me if so. Maybe we can meet up for a battle, or perhaps just commiserate.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Oh, right. we never really saw the RPG here in the Twin Cities; it was almost all 40K with some of the fantasy stuff. Neither appealed, for all sorts of reasons - especially GW's marketing pushes.

Yeah, I dislike the 40k stuff, too. I mean, if we're playing a space battle, what is the cyborg dude doing with the sword? Rocket launchers, ready!

It can be fun, and I would not want to detract from that. Here locally, you either spent tons of money to be a serious contender, or you were a impulse buy who dumped armies like empty soda bottles. I got a lot of cheap figures, that way.

It wasn't fun enough that I'd see a reason to gather friends for an afternoon-evening of gaming, and then play an wargame. I'd just pull an RPG, to be honest.

What are called 'wargames' these days are a lot of fun, if you have people playing who are decent and smart. I've met a lot of jerks, though, which is why I play so little these days.

Almost all games can be fun in this case. Well, chess removes the need for the "decent" part, but the "smart" one is mandatory!

I suspect Lord Shemek would cross me off from his will, but I actually like skirmish games with less figures than a typical WH battle. Not that I'd mind a WWII or 30YW battle at regiment level, but I haven't yet seen a game that does them well.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Chirine,

Unfortunately I think that the types of "wargames" that we knew are all gone in any type of public/formalised/organised setting. I'm not sure what it's like in your neck of the woods but up here it's Warhammer (in all of its incarnations) or some other type of skirmish game which, quite honestly, bore the hell out me. Just try and find a good old fashion SYW, or Napoleonic, or ACW gaming session that uses actual battalions, regiments or, god forbid, full brigades in any of the so called FLGS. You'd have better luck finding a snow ball in July. Bolt Action and Flames of War seem to be popular these days, but it's bloody skirmish level again. If I wanted to play squad based games I'd sure be using ASL (adapted to miniatures) before I wasted my time with BA or FoW. Most historical miniature gaming, such as it is, seems to be done amongst friends at home, and actual gaming clubs simply don't exist up here, or at least I have never been able to find any. Too bad really, as I would love get my Imperial Russians and Generalissimo Suvorov out on the table and square off against Old Fritz.
BTW, out of curiosity, is anyone on this thread interested in SYW wargaming, and in the GTA? PM me if so. Maybe we can meet up for a battle, or perhaps just commiserate.

Shemek

I know the feeling. I had as my original goal back in the late 1970s to build all of the Tekumelyani military units on a 1:100 ratio. I managed to get a lot of them done, both via the actual figures and ones from other companies, so I can throw some pretty big multi-legion / battlegroup actions - like Third Mar, which we did with my figures. These days, nobody wants to spend the time on a big game; quick, two- to three-hour games, that's it and they move on to the next game / set of rules. I do like skirmishing, but it's all part of the larger view of a 'campaign'; the skirmishes lead to the bigger clashes, most of the time.

There's a group here at the FLGS that does big historical games, but it's all in 15mm; the tables look decent, but it's masses of figures that all kind of blur together in the later periods of horse-and-musket. Some very nice SYW stuff, though, as well as samurai. They are not keen on any sort of non-historicals, from what they've told me, so no gaming to be had for me there.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Yeah, I dislike the 40k stuff, too. I mean, if we're playing a space battle, what is the cyborg dude doing with the sword? Rocket launchers, ready!

It wasn't fun enough that I'd see a reason to gather friends for an afternoon-evening of gaming, and then play an wargame. I'd just pull an RPG, to be honest.

Almost all games can be fun in this case. Well, chess removes the need for the "decent" part, but the "smart" one is mandatory!

I suspect Lord Shemek would cross me off from his will, but I actually like skirmish games with less figures than a typical WH battle. Not that I'd mind a WWII or 30YW battle at regiment level, but I haven't yet seen a game that does them well.

Agreed! Chainsaw swords? In space? And people think I'm weird.

Yep; I can understand this.

Maybe, but I think he'd understand.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

I suspect Lord Shemek would cross me off from his will, but I actually like skirmish games with less figures than a typical WH battle. Not that I'd mind a WWII or 30YW battle at regiment level, but I haven't yet seen a game that does them well.

Asen my friend, of course not. It's not so much that I hate skirmish games and want absolutely nothing to do with them, it's just that I don't like the fact that they have become the default historical miniature wargaming format. To me it is endemic of our hobby as a whole.
Everything is easier, quicker, and video game like. Episodic little fights. I miss the Grand Strategy of wargaming and spending an entire afternoon and evening resolving a single battle, or a weekend fighting a campaign. Also, as a wargaming enthusiast seeing massed armies of painted units on a table is amazing.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

I know the feeling. I had as my original goal back in the late 1970s to build all of the Tekumelyani military units on a 1:100 ratio. I managed to get a lot of them done, both via the actual figures and ones from other companies, so I can throw some pretty big multi-legion / battlegroup actions - like Third Mar, which we did with my figures. These days, nobody wants to spend the time on a big game; quick, two- to three-hour games, that's it and they move on to the next game / set of rules. I do like skirmishing, but it's all part of the larger view of a 'campaign'; the skirmishes lead to the bigger clashes, most of the time.

There's a group here at the FLGS that does big historical games, but it's all in 15mm; the tables look decent, but it's masses of figures that all kind of blur together in the later periods of horse-and-musket. Some very nice SYW stuff, though, as well as samurai. They are not keen on any sort of non-historicals, from what they've told me, so no gaming to be had for me there.

You and I are essentially on the same page Chirine. Skirmishes as a lead up to something bigger are perfectly fine, but when they become the rai·son d'ê·tre well, I'm starting to loose interest.
Although SYW is my default era when it comes miniature war gaming, I really am willing to play any type of game, except for a typical WH (i.e. Tolkienesque) scenario. My eyes just start to glaze over when I see orcs, goblins, trolls... on the table. This trope has been beaten to death AFAIC, and although it is popular amongst a large segment of players it no longer holds any interest for me.
Historical gamers can be insular/snobby at times. I know that many of them see "fantasy" as odd, or even, in extreme cases, "stupid" I say "to each his own." Play whatever you want.
If I ever make it to the Twin Cities area hopefully we can meet up for a big game of Tekumel wargaming. I would love to have a multi-legion battle. Maybe the invasion of Chakas? That would be a blast!

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed! Chainsaw swords? In space? And people think I'm weird.

Yep; I can understand this.

Maybe, but I think he'd understand.

Seen. I have always like the background, i.e. fluff, associated with the 40k universe, but sometimes they do become a little silly, don't they? Like Asen said, "Rocket launchers, ready!" they can keep their swords.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed! Chainsaw swords? In space? And people think I'm weird.

Don't even get me started on the chainsaw swords, Uncle!

Yep; I can understand this.

Maybe, but I think he'd understand.

He is indeed known for being understanding!

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Asen my friend, of course not. It's not so much that I hate skirmish games and want absolutely nothing to do with them, it's just that I don't like the fact that they have become the default historical miniature wargaming format. To me it is endemic of our hobby as a whole.
Everything is easier, quicker, and video game like. Episodic little fights. I miss the Grand Strategy of wargaming and spending an entire afternoon and evening resolving a single battle, or a weekend fighting a campaign. Also, as a wargaming enthusiast seeing massed armies of painted units on a table is amazing.

Shemek

Well, I'm kinda new to the whole wargaming thing, as you know. For now, most of my experience is Warhammer, and the rest is with a couple skirmish wargames.
I liked them better than Warhammer, is all I can say.

Then again, I'd rather deal with the logistics of armies than with the logistics of having to carry a huge number of models.

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Seen. I have always like the background, i.e. fluff, associated with the 40k universe, but sometimes they do become a little silly, don't they? Like Asen said, "Rocket launchers, ready!" they can keep their swords.

And I love swords. Or at least I tell that to swords so to get them in bed!
Joking aside, one has to recognize the advantages and disadvantages of all things.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed! Lots of snubbing people at parties and in the street, not doing business with them, the list goes on and on. It's not always about dry-gulching somebody.

We never really got deeply into it with Phil, but I have NO doubt the Tsolyani have their own versions of "the cut direct," "the cut indirect," and enough other variations on "Big Boys and Big Girls Big Book of Big Snubs" to give Jane Austen the vapors.