Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

In his last few years of his life Gary described running OD&D Greyhawk at modern gaming cons. He said time after time players charged in, failed to watch the side passages, and got flanked, enveloped, and wiped out. Sometimes they'd die fast enough to wipe out three or four parties in a single session. He said he couldn't believe how most groups never changed their approach, including ignoring the same side passages where the enemy emerged from time after time.

Hm. Interesting. So it's not just me.

I guess I'm not modern, then; we always covered the sides and rear, figuring that Something was going to jump out at us. And that is was our problem to have to deal with.

Originally Posted by Horu hiFa'asu

Honorable Uncles and cousins, I think you may to some extent be missing the forest for the trees. Rules aren't made for people who already know how to play - they are designed for people who don't. When you've got decades of experience, you don't need rules - you usually have a fairly good idea who to approximate something and how to bending and existing rule to fit a situation. When you are novice it's tough to figure out what 'reasonable' even is - the 'rules' give you a basis for figuring that all out.

How can a novice GM design an encounter designed to be 'tough' or 'easy' if they lack the experience to know what a 'balanced' encounter would even look like? Other than being a devices to sell more books, most rules revisions and re-writes are created to make it easier for 'new' people to play. "Old school" players pretty much all learned from someone else of course - but mainly because trying to learn how to play the original games simply by reading the rules was exceedingly difficult - if not impossible.

Books like the 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide was simply a big collections of lists and references. The latest edition has all this - but also a lot of information on how to actually play and how to run a campaign - everything from how to keep notes to listing and giving examples for different styles and flavor of campaigns.

Adding 'training wheels' for newbies isn't a bad thing - nothing forces you to keep using them once you've got your balance.

The problem usually goes back to pedantic rules lawyers who never seem to get that the rules are there to help - not to get in the way...

Understood; I agree with your points about GM and player 'education'. And your point about rules lawyers is dead on, and I suspect is the root of the issues I'm seeing.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Well for one thing there would not be a series of books if the heroes didn't survive.

These days people advertise "Campaigns" which imply that the players will live through multiple encounters.
Creating a character can take the same amount of time as a complete game session.

Back in my starting days we just had "a Game". If we got lucky, all the characters would live through it and eventually level up.
If not, time to roll another character and try again before the night was over.
=

True, but I do expect cliff-hangers along the way.

Agreed; I watched some nice person roll up her PC on Sunday - it took something like two hours, and we really didn't start play until after three pm for a one pm session. I did a lot of shopping, while I waited.

Interesting points re the terminology. Very interesting indeed...

Originally Posted by Zirunel

Hey everyone, just coming back to this conversation after a lengthy absence and trying to catch up. Looks like the most vibrant and active Tekumel discussion is still to be found right here.

Welcome back!

Re the discussion: I'm still a little astonished that this seems to be the case...

Originally Posted by bconsidine

We've spoken about the movies that helped flavor the Professor's Tekumel, so with that in mind, has anyone here seen Baahubali? Tekumel goes Bollywood. I've only seen part 1, but it was a lot of fun. It's currently on Netflix.

Blaise

Yes; it is indeed a heap of fun, both films! It's one of the films I'd strongly suggest, too!

From AsenRG:
I know, Uncle! The first time I heard the concept, it was 2001 or 2002, I said "I'd call it retarded, but I don't want to offend actual retards".
(I was young and opinionated, what can I say?)

Yep; I'm just boggled by the concept.

Well, don't be too quick to write it off as a "swan song", Uncle! You still haven't replied to my question, below...

I don't know yet; I just don;t know. I think I need some quite for a while, and a chance to get caught up with real life. The new position and schedule is working quite well, these four days in; I'm not stressed and pressured, which is a very good thing.

I'm also reading it, and liking it...
(And there is also that B�thorm game. I hear you know the author as well...though I think I like Blade and Crown better).

They are both good, aren't they?

Originally Posted by Greentongue

Even in RuneQuest where taking, or being taken for, ransom is part of the game, I've noticed players would rather die than be captured by an opponent.
Kinda ties the hands of the GM.

Seems like Tekumel is a prefect place for ransoming what with the clan support available.
How would you work players into accepting it as an option?
Bets? You lose and you have to spend the night in their clanhouse closet?
=

Agreed! It's a big part of what 'shamtla' is all about. As for telling people, I just wait until the situation comes up and then explain it simply. The clan elders finish with practical examples.

Originally Posted by Greentongue

This brings up the question of Feuds.
It might be a strong motivator for taking hostages, avoiding a feud.

chirine ba kal, how prevalent are feuds in Tekumel?

It would seem that it would not be uncommon for there to be feuds and maybe ones that had lasted centuries?
chirine, have you encountered or been involved in a feud?
=

Agreed. And yes, there have been clan and temple and legion feuds that have been going on for centuries. "Deeds" has some of these, and yes, we did see some in Phil's campaign. I'm sort of involved with some of the various Vriddi factions and their feuds, as well as the one between the Ito factions. As well as some of the Temple of Vimuhla's and the Incandescent Blaze Society's. I keep a notpad handy to see who's out to get whom.